333i

[bimma360]

Dude thats one of the cleanest freakin swaps I have ever seen. I would hope to see 4 pages of praise, and questions where we can all learn something. And even if some things arent ideal to you personally, you still learn something as an enthusiast. Isn't this what its all about anyway?

Dav

[xwill112x]

andrew, very clean work, althought i dont agree with your motives behind ruining the subframe. clean work dude for real, maybe start listening to the old goats around here that know they're shit. a electric fan is better than mechanical. other than that, a+ imo.

[8380 Labs]

it looks to me like he took on a pretty large project and did a very thorough and clean job executing it.

he did all this at a pretty young age, while also apparently subjecting himself to endless ridicule from a lot of people who are old enough to be his dad. he stood his ground and did it his way, and it looks from here like it turned out pretty phenomenally. i know a lot of you guys throwing darts wouldn't do nearly as well in the same circumstances. half of you are probably sitting on bunk ass projects that will never get done yourselves.

i'm not normally the voice of reason when it comes to not making fun of people, but a lot of you guys just look like crybabies grasping at straws.

nice work andrew.

[CorvallisBMW]

I wouldn't say its better tech but more of a compromise or "best-fit" solution given the predicament. I mean modern BMW engines are also designed differently in terms of cooling allowing them to incorporate an electric fan (ie. synthetic oil, engine bay parts, additional bumper/fender/hood vents, wider front grills). If you compare an m20 or an m30 to any other modern BMW engine of the same displacement size, you'll realize how many parts are now high vacuum plastic components just to maintain a weight and temperature comparable to older generation engines. Plus, modern engines of the same displacement are designed with a wider surface area to dissipate heat better (which is why a 2.5l m54 looks a lot fatter-take up more engine bay room-than a 2.5l m20). An m54 just barely weighs a bit more than an m20 of the same size, but can you imagine if the weight and cooling inefficiency while using an electric fan if the m54 didn't use plastic molding for its water pump, intake manifold, valve cover, airbox, etc..? Overall, this certainly takes a lot of cooling work off an electric fan but probably at the cost of durability and reliability. I suppose andrew retain a mechanical fan for reliability purposes.

m54 engines way quite a bit less b/c of their aluminum block. And the surface area of the motor has no effect on it's heat dissipation ability, 99.9% of that is done through the cooling system. Not to mention that with all the plastic bits on the engine (such as the manifold, valve cover, etc) heat is held in much more so than on an all-metal motor like an m20.

Andrew, I can't remember, what made you decide to go with the m30b23/M1.1 instead of the b25/M1.3? Don't you loose like 40hp and gain a lot of complexity in the wiring/vacuum lines? Was is just availability of the motor?

[e30e]

I wouldn't say its better tech but more of a compromise or "best-fit" situation. I mean BMW's engine are also designed differently in terms of cooling allowing them to incorporate an electric fan (ie. synthetic oil, engine bay parts). If you compare an m20 or an m30 to any other modern BMW engine of the same displacement size, you'll realize how many parts are now high vacuum plastic components just to maintain a weight and temperature comparable to older generation engines. Plus, modern engines of the same displacement are designed with a wider surface area to dissipate heat better (which is why a 2.5l m54 looks a lot fatter-take up more engine bay room-than a 2.5l m20). An m54 just barely weighs a bit more than an m20 of the same size, but can you imagine if the weight and cooling inefficiency if the m54 didn't use plastic molding for its water pump, intake manifold, valve cover, airbox, etc..? This certainly takes a lot of cooling work off an electric cooling fan but probably at the cost of durability and reliability. I suppose andrew retain a mechanical fan for reliability purposes.

Way to complicate things...forget double vanos is taking place on the m54, motronic is ancient or that were comparing dohc to sohc.

Electric fans have there place for MANY reasons.

[bmwstephen]

Glad to see it finally came together. I have my reservations about why you did it the way you did, but at least once you settled on something you did it well. Props to you for going in 100% and doing top-notch work.

I must however point out that you are incorrect in saying that "Most BMWs have mechanical fans". That is not true. Not one BMW made in the last 10-12 years has had a mechanical fan, because they are less efficient. They draw off the engine's horsepower, adding drag and increasing fuel consumption. Hence why all modern cars use electric fans, it's simply better technology. Even the X5M, which from a thermodynamics standpoint puts out 3x the heat of the m30, has all-electric fans. None of the 3.5/24V swap guys are having overheating issues running electric fans.

I wouldn't say its better tech but more of a compromise or "best-fit" solution given the predicament. I mean modern BMW engines are also designed differently in terms of cooling allowing them to incorporate an electric fan (ie. synthetic oil, engine bay parts, additional bumper/fender/hood vents, wider front grills). If you compare an m20 or an m30 to any other modern BMW engine of the same displacement size, you'll realize how many parts are now high vacuum plastic components just to maintain a weight and temperature comparable to older generation engines. Plus, modern engines of the same displacement are designed with a wider surface area to dissipate heat better (which is why a 2.5l m54 looks a lot fatter-take up more engine bay room-than a 2.5l m20). An m54 just barely weighs a bit more than an m20 of the same size, but can you imagine if the weight and cooling inefficiency while using an electric fan if the m54 didn't use plastic molding for its water pump, intake manifold, valve cover, airbox, etc..? Overall, this certainly takes a lot of cooling work off an electric fan but probably at the cost of durability and reliability. I suppose andrew retain a mechanical fan for reliability purposes.

[CorvallisBMW]

You have no idea what you are talking about, BMW has used mechanical fans in there cars within the last 10 years.

Maybe 1 or 2, but 95+% are electric. e46, e60, e67, e90, e53, etc.... On and on, every 3, 5, 7, X, etc. has an electric fan. And I actually worked on them, not just read stuff on teh internetz. Hell even water pumps are electric now.

The quality of the work is excellent, no doubt. The motives/reasoning behind it are another story.

[Stephen]

You have no idea what you are talking about, BMW has used mechanical fans in there cars within the last 10 years.

Splitting hairs dude, his point is valid. Maybe they have in a few, but his overall point is correct. Alpina has seen them fit, dozens if not hundreds of swapped cars, e30 or not use electrical fans regularly. Maybe if he didnt have to compromise other aspects of his car to keep the mechanical fan, it wouldnt be a big deal to leave it out. Something tells me BMW in the last 10 years would not have engineered a weakened subframe to allow for a mechanical fan.

[10Toes]

"Most BMWs have mechanical fans". That is not true. Not one BMW made in the last 10-12 years has had a mechanical fan, because they are less efficient. They draw off the engine's horsepower, adding drag and increasing fuel consumption. Hence why all modern cars use electric fans, it's simply better technology. Even the X5M, which from a thermodynamics standpoint puts out 3x the heat of the m30, has all-electric fans. None of the 3.5/24V swap guys are having overheating issues running electric fans.

You have no idea what you are talking about, BMW has used mechanical fans in there cars within the last 10 years.

[Japandrew73]

Thank you all for your compliments. The radiator is a standard e28 535i model.

[Brian D]

The car looks very nice, you did a great job with your modifications.

I see why you did the engine placement the way you did, but I won't do mine the same way. Nothing against yours, there are compromises in both approaches. I'm glad yours has worked out to your satisfaction, and one thing to note is that setting the engine low and to the rear is great for weight distribution.

Someone mentioned Paul Cain's beautiful 2002, and that brings up a point. I read the article in Bimmer and one thing that stood out to me was the placement of the transmission. He was very concerned with weight distribution, to the point that he went to a lot of trouble to fabricate a rear mounted transaxle setup. Unfortunately the performance testing showed that the transaxle ultimately became a handicap to performance, because shifting it is very slow. I believe he fixated on one aspect of building a performance car, to the point where he compromised another important aspect badly enough to negate whatever he gained. Building any high performance car is a balancing act. I hope that you are satisfied with the choices you've made.

As far as some of the negative comments being thrown around, I read a quote tonight on another forum that sums up my feeling: "What good does it do to drive enthusiasts away. His car was much less offensive than some members here who regularly post here."

Good luck with your future plans.

[Jean]

Finally! What radiator is that btw? Did you get it smogged/bar'ed yet?

P.S. you a missing one clip on the front grill lol

P.S.S. I also agree with CorvallisBMW , plenty of new cars (including BMW models) that use all electric fans for cooling from the factory. Whatever works right...

[CorvallisBMW]

Glad to see it finally came together. I have my reservations about why you did it the way you did, but at least once you settled on something you did it well. Props to you for going in 100% and doing top-notch work.

I must however point out that you are incorrect in saying that "Most BMWs have mechanical fans". That is not true. Not one BMW made in the last 10-12 years has had a mechanical fan, because they are less efficient. They draw off the engine's horsepower, adding drag and increasing fuel consumption. Hence why all modern cars use electric fans, it's simply better technology. Even the X5M, which from a thermodynamics standpoint puts out 3x the heat of the m30, has all-electric fans. None of the 3.5/24V swap guys are having overheating issues running electric fans.

[pureaudio]

For all the shit he has taken for his plans, he did actually accomplish them...props. Oh and I'd suck the teet of Paul Cain if he was my neighbor too.

[kronus]

This 'Cain guy' sounds like he knows what he's doing hehe :D

spoiler: they're neighbors ;)