Rolling e46 shots... no 56k

[Jonathan M3]

Don't forget, theres only so many things that can break/crap out on an e30. The newer models have way more equipment packed into them that can potenially fail.

I do agree though that BMW only really cares if the car will last to 100k miles. By that time the original owner will be wanting the next latest and greatest model off the lot.

[Jand3rson]

Don't forget, theres only so many things that can break/crap out on an e30. The newer models have way more equipment packed into them that can potenially fail.

This is very true, and 99% of that is computerized and/or hi-tech shit that is going to cost an arm and a leg to fix/replace.

I do agree though that BMW only really cares if the car will last to 100k miles. By that time the original owner will be wanting the next latest and greatest model off the lot.

Unfortunately, this is the mission statement of just about every car company.

[Digitalwave]

Sure, I know that the car will last another 100,000 miles though, but I don't see why an E46 that has been maintained like an E30 has been wouldn't last the same.

I'm just speculating though, I've never even driven an E46.

[trent]

Sure, I know that the car will last another 100,000 miles though, but I don't see why an E46 that has been maintained like an E30 has been wouldn't last the same.

I'm just speculating though, I've never even driven an E46.

Oh....they certainly can. I have a few customers who happen to have 200,000+ mile E46s. Tally up their receipts in the last 2 years? Over $20,000 (yes this is more than 2 people). And no, this isn't fun stuff. This is general repairs. Most of my list previously applies. Oh, I forgot the "cold vanos problems" that cause the cars to die on cold startup. Tack on another $1500 repair.

TJ, you are missing the point. Josh understands my point...newer cars are just not built to last like older cars. Sure they will all have similiar problems, however, they are happing 50-60K miles earlier than the glory year mid 80s cars. Period.

[trent]

I do agree though that BMW only really cares if the car will last to 100k miles. By that time the original owner will be wanting the next latest and greatest model off the lot.

That is exactly right. The E46s have so many problems, these, I feel, are the true, "fan-boy" BMW cars. These pieces of shit are going so cheap on the used market, and are a dime a donzen. People who are buying them second hand, usually cannot afford the repairs. They pick them up, thinking, omg I have a pimp BMW (like our original poster here) that will be perfect like my old E28/E30, to find out that the car is a piece of shit, and they wish they still had their "fan-boy" E30.

[bmwm3n528]

The only thing that 'excites' me about E46s is their motors, and their rust proofing.

Period.

Driven every E46 iteration on this side of the pond, and what Trent says is QFT.

My dealership's shop foreman's words pretty much reiterates what was stated by the foreman that Trent's familiar with. Also a BMW Master Technician for a number of decades.

[Jand3rson]

The only thing that 'excites' me about E46s is their motors, and their rust proofing.

Period.

Driven every E46 iteration on this side of the pond, and what Trent says is QFT.

I've driven an E46 M3 cabrio, a 325i and a 325ic, and what Trevor is saying is very true. Their engines are a blast, especially the M3, and they handle amazingly well. Other than that, that was the extent of my being impressed with them. Everything about them felt and looked cheap, inside and out. The M3 cabby that I drove actually belonged to an older friend of mine, and he ended up selling it for exactly the reasons that Trent is talking about. It had something like 92k on it, and he had a laundry list of repairs that it needed to get done, and while he would have had no problem having it taken care of (dude had MONEY), he was pissed that he was going to have to spend about a 3rd of what he paid for it to get it back up to snuff.

Now a lot of people are going to immediatley lump me into the "OMG teh E30 is teh greatest car EVAR" category here, but there is solid truth to what Trent, myself, and others are saying. The simple fact of the matter is that E30's, along with most every other BMW from the late-70''s through the early-90's were greatly over-engineered, especially the E30 (which is widely known) and they were just built better and built to last. Materials used now in cars are cheaper, lower quality, lower COST materials. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and car makers such as Bentley, Aston Martin, Ferrari, etc fall into that exception. But even there, you're beginning to find more and more cut corners and more importantly, cut costs.

While this may not apply to every aspect of the car, such as the engine and suspension in most higher-end cars, the rest of the car, such as the body, interior, and many chassis components suffer simply due to the fact that cheaper, much less lower quality materials are being used today than was being used 20 years ago.

[windnsea00]

TJ, you are missing the point. Josh understands my point...newer cars are just not built to last like older cars. Sure they will all have similiar problems, however, they are happing 50-60K miles earlier than the glory year mid 80s cars. Period.

Totally agree with that, the E36 was the first recyclable car and it is def. noticeable. My brother's `93 325is has a few annoying issues but luckily it still runs strong at 147k miles and it still seems BMW uses stout engine/drivetrains but it's the little electronic things that get to them which seems to be the German way. Granted the subframe tearing issue was pretty disappointing.

IMO, if your going to own a newer BMW make sure it has warranty and/or CPO. My parent's `02 325iT (I personally like it with the sport package, bi-xenons, pdc, and other goodies) with 52k on the clock is under CPO thru next December and we have used the CPO for typical E46 stuff (front window regulators, sunroof liner/clips and a new t-stat). Tommorow, it's getting new front/rear bushings...I know the front are shot but might as well do them all at once.

As long as BMW keeps making the best driving vehicle compared to it's competitors then I will buy them but they def. cut costs (ex. exterior/interior materials in the E90 are pretty disappointing). If I was pretty loaded I would probably have a 997 GT3, E60 M5 and of course an immaculate Lachsilber E30 M3.

[Eric Giles]

Lot's of responses since I posted, and I won't cover them all, but will state a few things. As I stated in my original post, none of the three E46's I have owned have been kept until that 60-80k mile range so I don't have first hand, personal experience with what is being claimed.

Now Josh claimed that every E46 he had been in felt and looked cheap-I honestly just don't see how you can say this. No offense to you, but really-now saying that about an E36-hell yes! I have owned one, and that was the worst build quality of any BMW I have personally seen! And this was an E36 M3/4 with the luxury interior in Magma-probably the nicest interior setup offered on the E36 period. The interior materials were very cheap-tons of rattles, plastic that creaked and cracked, etc.-and this trend carried over into other parts of the car too.

My point-the E46 was a big step up in build quality from the E36, and the quality of the materials was on par with its rivals-although I admit Audi is about the best of all the Germans in interior materials and design. The structure of the E46 is very rigid, and generally that means the car itself will stay tight for a very long time. The subframe mounting points are a weak spot carried over from the E36 and shame on BMW for not fixing that-but generally it is the earlier model cars that have that issue.

Trent-no way I can argue with yours and others hands-on experience working on and repairing these cars. It sounds like they have their issues-but overall, from what I hear in general the reliability has improved over previous models. Let's take something else into consideration-back when BMW did not pay for all maintenance for the first 4 years/50k miles, the overall maintenance intervals were much shorter and included the service of more major components. Transmission and differential fluid changes, more frequent oil changes, that 1200 mile break-in service (which only M cars get now)-the cars were getting a lot more attention from the service departments back then, and probably had better preventive maintenace because of it. If an E46 was given the same attention, it is possible there might be less issues. I think that the every 15k mile oil change BMW recommends and pays for is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of-I have already heard of and seen pictures of instances where cars are coming in with under 50k miles and the engines are nothing but sludge! And these cars had been serviced at the dealer with the factory service intervals. BMW has to keep the sales up of the new cars, so killing the old ones off sooner helps them accomplish that.

Hell, it even seems to me like I am rambling now so I will stop. Maybe I sound like an E46 fanboy-I enjoyed every E46 I owned, and I would (and probably will) own another one at some point. They are very tight, refined, and have very good build quality IMO. A sport package equipped 330i or Ci with a manual tranny is a damn nice car-and the ZHP package makes it even better-and is probably about the best daily driver you could ask for.

But I will always remember my BMW roots-hence an E30 will probably always be in my possession.

[Eliminator]

Considering that the E46 chassis is what keeps the independent sector of repair shops alive after warranty is a true statement of this cars longevitiy, build quailty, and design. When everything hits the fan at 60K to 80K, that is not ideal.

Lets make a short list:

EML units
control arms/bushings
complete cooling system
window regulators
a/c compressors
air pumps
subframe problems (he has the 99)
alternators
blower resistors
xenon problems (if has)
diff bushing (on cover)
lets not even mention that many of these engines are pulling head studs...

There, you want more? The e46 is truely a throw-away car, sure all cars have these problems (well, most), but it happens to these cars sooner than later.

*edited...added a few more things.

I have almost 90k on my E46, and only one problem: The coolant expansion tank. And that was so easy and cheap to replace it was amazing. The part was only $60 from the dealer and the only tool required was a screwdriver. It took half an hour to replace, and that includes the 20 minutes I spent marveling at how well engineered that car is.

Where are you getting this info? I spend a lot of time over at E46 fanatics and I haven't heard of half of these things being problems.

[Eliminator]

As for the lowering, why waste money on the ZHP parts? Especially having to go through BMW, and getting raped. Im not sure if they have H&R Race for E46, which Im sure they do, but Id go that route. OR since its new and nicer, take longer and get the Pss9s?

You can pick up used ZHP parts for cheap at E46 fanatics. It really is a fantastic setup. I think very, very few aftermarket setups would match the handling and especially the ride/handling combination. I know, I retrofitted it onto my 328ci.

[Eliminator]

This is very true, and 99% of that is computerized and/or hi-tech shit that is going to cost an arm and a leg to fix/replace.

Like any electronic device, if it makes it past a few months it will likely last forever. The solid state part, anyways. Switches, relays, etc.. are a different story.

[trent]

I have almost 90k on my E46, and only one problem: The coolant expansion tank. And that was so easy and cheap to replace it was amazing. The part was only $60 from the dealer and the only tool required was a screwdriver. It took half an hour to replace, and that includes the 20 minutes I spent marveling at how well engineered that car is.

Where are you getting this info? I spend a lot of time over at E46 fanatics and I haven't heard of half of these things being problems.

Where do I get my information? Well, lets just say I work in the Independent BMW Repair sector. These cars pay my salary.

You haven't seen these problems on E46fanatics? Holy shit, you are not paying attention. Everytime I encounter a new problem (seemingly to me) I search on E46fanatics and findout that most all of the users have encountered it. hahah.

[Julien]

That is exactly right. The E46s have so many problems, these, I feel, are the true, "fan-boy" BMW cars. These pieces of shit are going so cheap on the used market, and are a dime a donzen. People who are buying them second hand, usually cannot afford the repairs. They pick them up, thinking, omg I have a pimp BMW (like our original poster here) that will be perfect like my old E28/E30, to find out that the car is a piece of shit, and they wish they still had their "fan-boy" E30.

You are so full of yourself you make me roflcopter. are you drunk in this thread too or?



Julien

[Il Duce]

You are so full of yourself you make me roflcopter. are you drunk in this thread too or?



Julien

:rofl: