Making a track toy - E30 M3

[Il Duce]

duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-NUH... another one bites the dust.

[325iCabrio]

I think that's pretty sweet. I wish we had an old Euro dealership like that in the States--three M3s and an Audi coupe? Killer!

As far as I'm concerned, you're sticking another BMW engine in there, one from the later M3, so I don't see a problem. Hell, I'd like to put an S38 in mine, but my wallets not big enough. I would keep the S14 and tranny only because the M3 will be valuable someday, and you might want to put it back to original condition. But I think you'll have a great track car.

From what I've read, you're not racing competitively, you're running timed laps around the 'Ring (which I would love to do, BTW). So worries about body damage and what not are unfounded, unless you put it into the bushes--considering the power of your E39, I doubt you will. :)

[bimmer]

duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-NUH... another one bites the dust.

Hehe, all references to Queen take me back to my summer vacation in Europe. I drove from Denmark down to Italy and then all the way up to Sweden to have my E39 M5 supercharged.

I listened to Queen alot on the road. Here is an example:

http://www.onno.is/thordur/m5/Eurotrip/Autobahn_und_Queen.wmv

At approx. 4:20 into the video I hit 300 km/h - this was on the A7 on
the way north prior to the SC install (the car had full exhaust and had
been totally delimited).

More pics from the trip (including being stranded at the Ring for a week)
here:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=74532

[bimmer]

I think that's pretty sweet. I wish we had an old Euro dealership like that in the States--three M3s and an Audi coupe? Killer!

As far as I'm concerned, you're sticking another BMW engine in there, one from the later M3, so I don't see a problem. Hell, I'd like to put an S38 in mine, but my wallets not big enough. I would keep the S14 and tranny only because the M3 will be valuable someday, and you might want to put it back to original condition. But I think you'll have a great track car.

From what I've read, you're not racing competitively, you're running timed laps around the 'Ring (which I would love to do, BTW). So worries about body damage and what not are unfounded, unless you put it into the bushes--considering the power of your E39, I doubt you will. :)

I had a scary moment at the Ring this fall when I picked up my car after the SC install.
I was going faster and faster each ring up Flugplatz and was going close to 200 km/h when I felt the car "float/fly" without grip
and the next right hander was coming up really quick. The car
eventually settled and I just made it :shock:

But you are right - I am not competing so hopefully damage from
bumping into other cars will be at a minimum. Also, I don´t intend
to totally strip the car on the inside - maybe remove the back seats
and install a roll cage.

[CleanAzzE30z]

Funny purist comments,
Some people don´t even maintain there cars and give others shit for going beyond the norm.

S14 motors aren´t all that. I have one, and spending $15-20k for it to be 280-300hp is just stupid,
When for the same money you can upgrade the suspension, S50, bushings, and so on,

heritage of the E30 M3 is not the S14, they could have used a 24V M20 in there at 3.0L and 9k rpm´s ,
People don´t even know the history of the S14 and E30 M3,
Wich by the way is the biggest BMW parts bin ever made,

I will say this, I would have entertained the idea of a turbo S14 engine in there. I will say that E30 M3´s are way hotter then any other E30 and or BMW.

S14 motors arent all that.Thats hilarious. I love absolute statements. A 24v M20 and produced 9K and had the same success? Thats just a untrue. Read into why BMW chose a 4 cylinder, friend. I believe we all know how their decision went seeing the success of the E30 ///M3. We both have our opinions, although I may ot agree with your decision, I also did not call your decision stupid. The E30 ///M3 with so many specific parts that did not come on any other models, let alone the regular E30 is the biggest parts bin??? Youre saying that about probably the least deserving car. Are you stoned?

<----------Just another idiot E30 ////M3 owner who kept the S14.


Mariano

[CleanAzzE30z]

the M3 will be valuable someday,

someday? ;)



Mariano

[325iCabrio]

someday? ;)



Mariano

LOL, just because it's worth more than a regular E30 doesn't mean shit. :p

[JeffB///]

LOL, just because it's worth more than a regular E30 doesn't mean shit. :p

It does when you can sell the car for more than you paid for it a few years ago. Not many cars do this.

[gstuning]

M10 engine with S38 head wipped up in a couple of weeks
E28 mixed with E30 struts in front
E30 susp in the back
E30 interior

Do you have a reason for why they went with a 4cyl?
Do you think it&#180;s because of the magical weight balance?
The S14 is not light and a M3 is equal in weight to a E30 325i or there abouts

for one the M20 was to far back to have it turned into a twincam in the same amount of time as a M10 was wich was only a couple of weeks, the M20 is the orphan in the BMW engine familiy at that time, M30&#180;s in the 70&#180;s where run up to 9k making over 400hp (over 450hp I belive). The absolute same could have been done to the M20 (starting a 2.5 at 321hp).

I belive the #1 reason is , the M30 didn&#180;t fit well in there and was heavy, same with the S38,, M20 would need alot of development time to get 24v in there (i.e mostly a new head thats cam belt driven),, M10 would never be able to make enough power with it&#180;s stock head, but luckily the M10 shares cyl spacing with M30&#180;s and S38&#180;s as well and they are both chain driven, so the easiest and most cost effective way to get some power in there was a M10-S38 combination, no need to develop difficult specific parts, cam profiles, and so on.

The tune up cost of a S14 is ridicioulus,
There is not a benefit sticking with a S14 rather then going with a more powerful S50,

I can&#180;t see how a 400hp S50 E30 M3 is worse then a 195hp S14 M3.

[Ray Smoodiver]

M10 engine with S38 head wipped up in a couple of weeks
E28 mixed with E30 struts in front
E30 susp in the back
E30 interior

Do you have a reason for why they went with a 4cyl?
Do you think it´s because of the magical weight balance?
The S14 is not light and a M3 is equal in weight to a E30 325i or there abouts

for one the M20 was to far back to have it turned into a twincam in the same amount of time as a M10 was wich was only a couple of weeks, the M20 is the orphan in the BMW engine familiy at that time, M30´s in the 70´s where run up to 9k making over 400hp (over 450hp I belive). The absolute same could have been done to the M20 (starting a 2.5 at 321hp).

I belive the #1 reason is , the M30 didn´t fit well in there and was heavy, same with the S38,, M20 would need alot of development time to get 24v in there (i.e mostly a new head thats cam belt driven),, M10 would never be able to make enough power with it´s stock head, but luckily the M10 shares cyl spacing with M30´s and S38´s as well and they are both chain driven, so the easiest and most cost effective way to get some power in there was a M10-S38 combination, no need to develop difficult specific parts, cam profiles, and so on.

The tune up cost of a S14 is ridicioulus,
There is not a benefit sticking with a S14 rather then going with a more powerful S50,

I can´t see how a 400hp S50 E30 M3 is worse then a 195hp S14 M3.

Preaching to the choir, Gunni.

Anyone who says the E30 M3 isn't a parts bin special is dreaming - why else is there SO MUCH interchangeability.

Hey I know, let's keep a time-bomb motor that was conceived some 22 year ago----> is this stance an american thing because you didn't get the S50B32?

I respect all the purists, but gingoism has its limits.

[Ray Smoodiver]

A 24v M20 and produced 9K and had the same success? Thats just a untrue. Read into why BMW chose a 4 cylinder, friend. I believe we all know how their decision went seeing the success of the E30 ///M3. We both have our opinions, although I may ot agree with your decision, I also did not call your decision stupid. The E30 ///M3 with so many specific parts that did not come on any other models, let alone the regular E30 is the biggest parts bin??? Youre saying that about probably the least deserving car. Are you stoned?

<----------Just another idiot E30 ////M3 owner who kept the S14.


Mariano

Um, isn't that an M50? There is a reason the bore spacing is the same.

Mariano - list of E30 M3 specific parts - stat.

[mikeedler]

you can argue this anyway you want. this is a total waste of time. In MY eyes, an M50/S50 is generic (newer) version of the S38.
and the S14 was a S38, just with 2 missing cylinders.
BMW always built off the older stuff.
And if you think BMW couldnt come up with a 24V head for the M20 in the same time as the M10, then your fooling yourself.

The way they were thinking is= lets take a tried/true RACE motor, cut 2 cyl. off and run it- to keep with the displacement. Everyone knows a STROKED M20 bottomend will never last at those RPMs Vs. an S14/M10

I never thought or said the S14 was a great, or best motor- hell, I know my car is far from being "fast" but yes, the heritage is in the buzziness of the S14(the heart) of the car.

[gstuning]

you can argue this anyway you want. this is a total waste of time. In MY eyes, an M50/S50 is generic (newer) version of the S38.
and the S14 was a S38, just with 2 missing cylinders.
BMW always built off the older stuff.
And if you think BMW couldnt come up with a 24V head for the M20 in the same time as the M10, then your fooling yourself.

The way they were thinking is= lets take a tried/true RACE motor, cut 2 cyl. off and run it- to keep with the displacement. Everyone knows a STROKED M20 bottomend will never last at those RPMs Vs. an S14/M10

I never thought or said the S14 was a great, or best motor- hell, I know my car is far from being "fast" but yes, the heritage is in the buzziness of the S14(the heart) of the car.

I exactly said that BMW could not come up with the 24v head in time and beeing cost effective,

To me the heritage is in the car it self not the engine

[mikeedler]

then like I said, your fooling yourself. Its BMW for christ sake.
the S38 was a PROVEN motor, whereas the M20 wasnt anything but a 150 hp 2.3 that couldnt handle real RPMs back in those days, and had no "real testing"
yes, the car brought the heritage, through the S14, cause the "e28 brakes didnt do that much for it, as well as the e30 rear suspension." as well as the" e30 interior "wasnt winning any DTM races either

and being cost effective????????????? they had to make a cast anyway for the all new S14 head parts. they didnt just sawzall the extra cyl. parts off.

on another note, If I had my choice, yes i would take a supercharged s50, but I would keep my s14 around

[8380 Labs]

No shit. Even if youre 15(:roll:), you'll still be filling up at the GAS station the day you die.

im shocked that somone from texas would have that opinion.

just kidding.