Something Something Tony G's E30 Sedan (we're using a coupe now) - S54 Swap

[Panici]

Just go for it with the rust.
In almost all cases you don't need floor cuts, just some appropriate gauge sheet metal.

I've grown to almost enjoy fab/welding/sheetmetal repair after doing a couple cars. My E28's floors are WAY rougher then what you're facing and I'm looking forward to fixing them when I have time.

Lap welding the repairs is easier, but butt welding is the proper way to do things.

Just a tip: After you weld in the panels, hit them with etching primer, then seam sealer after the primer cures.

[spike68]

Here to post another update on this whole coupe endeavor.

After a bunch of sleepless nights and countless conversations with friends I think I've decided to put this engine in some kind of coupe instead of the sedan. The one question I've gotten hung up on is "If you put the s54 in the sedan then would you still wish you put it in a coupe?". My answer is pretty much a yes. To me thats a question to seal the deal. My brother has expressed some interest in purchasing the sedan so I think I'm going to move forward with that.

Now the next question I'm asking is "which coupe should I use?". The easiest answer is the one sitting in my driveway, but obviously I've mentioned that this one has rust. A couple weekends ago I decided to pull bits of the carpet out to better assess the situation. You guessed it. I found more rust. See images below.

IMG_2977 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2976 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2986 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2985 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2984 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2983 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2981 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2980 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2979 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_2978 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr


My initial assessment of all this is that it doesn't look too bad except for that spot on the frame trail. My current thought is that I should just go for it and try to fix the rust. I know you're already thinking I'm an idiot, but hear me out. I've always wanted to learn how to fabricate and I purchased my first welder last year for that reason. Why not find a reason to use it and do some patching? I feel that learning experience will be valuable. I thinking I'd like to know personally how much doing rust repair sucks. In the end I can still decide I don't want to use this shell for the s54 I can walk away knowing I used the shell for something of value. I can always find a different rust free shell somewhere else if it comes up.

So here is the current plan. This weekend I'm headed to a guy's house that I've been buying some parts off of to cut out the floors of an e30 hes been parting out. I'm getting the floor pans and cutting out the part of the drivers side frame rail all as a replacement. I also went ahead and purchased an argon tank for my mig welder.

I'm really going to face this head on. I'm pretty nervous about how this might all turn out, but learning how to held has always been something on my bucket list.

I know this project has heavily derailed the point of the build thread started as, but I guess it be like that sometimes.

Thanks for reading.

[spike68]

How is the mechanical condition of the new ride?
Possible to just throw a drivetrain in and drive in current cosmetic state?

With the exception of needing to fix the rust hole in the frame rail I could in theory just throw a drive train into it pretty easily and go. Literally the engine and trans were the only things taken out. Steering rack is there, C101 connector is still there, Heater core lines, AC lines, etc. were all left behind. Even the rear diff is there.

[Panici]

How is the mechanical condition of the new ride?
Possible to just throw a drivetrain in and drive in current cosmetic state?

[spike68]

Hey there gang.

Yeah yeah I've been shit about giving updates. Been kicking myself about it, but none of it has been updates I think were worth giving, but I think I've got something good now.

Since my last update i've been working hard at collecting parts. I mentioned doing some youtube videos of the build and thats still the plan, but I wanted to stock pile parts so I don't have to stop and wait for something to show up.

Here is the link to my running list so far. Feel free to have a look and back check me if you'd like. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

In addition to all the parts collecting I've been doing I made a purchase of another e30 which could drastically change the direction of this build. I need some help deciding. Here are some images of the poor girl.

DSC_4262 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

DSC_4267 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

DSC_4307 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

DSC_4266 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

DSC_4295 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr



Overall this thing is in pretty rough shape and will take a lot of work to fix up at all. The only reason why I purchased it was because it was so cheap. Through my build I could have a use for it because now I have two cars and two drivetrains. The question I have now is "what do I do with it?" at the very least install an engine and transmission. The thought of throwing the s54 in this car does cross my mind, but I need help deciding. Here is a quick pros and cons list:

Sedan		Coupe
Pros	Cons	Pros	Cons
No rust	Sedan isn't as cool	Rust	Will need to reorder harness
Late models suit s54s more		coupe	Will have to swap parts over
		S54 in an Early model?	Dent in gas tank
		More body kit options	Can I do this?
			Build cost is higher

This biggest setback with using this car is that is has rust. A redeeming factor is that it's not salt rust, but a natural erosion kind of rust. Like it sat under a tree for a long time and water dripped on it in consistent spots (it's important to know that this is a true southern car noted on the title). Most of the spots are cosmetic areas like the hood, fender, and under one of the tail lights. Things I could tackle. The biggest spot is a rust hole on the frame rail. I don't have an image of it, but it will require cutting a patching. I think I can do it or i'd at least be willing to challenge myself. The paint is of course trashed. Title noted that it was originally grey and the engine bay still notes Delphin Metallic, but the car was repainted at one point and has failed.

So what do you guys think?

[Panici]

In additional to all this, I think I've decided to start shooting some youtube videos to share with everyone. Now is a good time to start since the rebuild process is just a little more interesting plus I just want to take a personal stab at it. Will share them with everyone here too.

Let us know the channel details when you start posting.
Would like to tune in!

[spike68]

We're cooking with gas now boys.

IMG_1921 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_1923 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr


Gotta order new main bearings since I forgot to order them a while ago. But the time has come to really start doing some building!

In additional to all this, I think I've decided to start shooting some youtube videos to share with everyone. Now is a good time to start since the rebuild process is just a little more interesting plus I just want to take a personal stab at it. Will share them with everyone here too.

[spike68]

Since my last posts I got all my parts in and dropped them off at the machine shop. It was probably early to mid December and since then I havent bugged them much since it was during the holidays. I'm planning on calling them this coming week to get a status update, but I'm thinking that since I had them put my engine on pause days before they were going to do my honing work that it jumped me out of line and I had to wait at the back again like a mom in the checkout line at a Home Goods who finds another mindless nicnak to put in her home thats far enough away that shes not in line anymore.

I also went ahead and sent my subframe and oil pan off to Ben at Bayside to get those parts modified. He is currently working fabbing the subframe, 420G transmission mounts, and modifying the oil pan.

In the meantime I've been doing some light research on parts to replace when I start reassembly. I think I'm gonna go ahead and buy a used set of stock cams from somewhere since mine really don't look great. I'm also looking into upgrading common s54 failure parts for peace of mind. I'm talking about things like vanos upgrades and a timing chain guide upgrade for now. I also need to start addressing parts that I never had to begin with like motor mounts and a driveshaft.

[moatilliatta]

How’s it lookinng?

[ForcedFirebird]

Awe, shucks. We are all here to help each other.

Cam timing is minimal. I build a lot of m20 "budget strokers" and shave 2mm off the block.

The amount they are going to shave is negligible, really - within rebuild tolerance, or even new "high side" tolerance. Over the years, I found almost every BMW is on the tight side of things from the factory, down to the thread pitches (a new 7mm high side tap will cut 24v header holes, low side tap threads in normal).

[spike68]

Probably ok, the machine shop maybe able to CC the head and piston to calculate your CR. Then make a decision there for HG thickness if it’s too far out of spec.

Shouldn't use HG thickness to change CR, it messes with the squish. You want to aim for ~.040" between the piston and head, irregardless of compression. Too much, and you not only leave power ont he table, it actually will cause MORE hot spots (aka pre-detonation spots).

Usually a decking of the block will only take .002" (.05mm) which really shouldn't mess with anything. I just shaved an m52 block and the stamped numbers will still present (.0015" or .038mm). You should be fine with the stock thickness gasket, but you can always clay on final assembly for piece of mind. From memory, I want to say the stock s54 pistons are ~.010" in the hole, so with a .040" gasket, you have the typical BMW ~.050". Unless they take over .010", head and block combined, then you are well within factory rebuild limits. On an 87mm bore, you lose .5cc for every .1mm shaved. The chamber is 33cc stock, so a typical .3mm shave will give you about .4:1 more. The head chamber is smaller than the piston,so it will have even less effect than block shaving (block is easy to calc).

Always have the pistons in hand when over boring, if a machinist is willing to bore without them, run away - fast.

Agreed. I'm just being mindful of "adjustment" needed to keep clearances as close to stock as possible. In addition I have no idea how much if any was shaved off this motor prior to me owning it. It's clear it was rebuilt not too long before I grabbed it. I'll talk to the machine shop on what they think I'll need and I'll clay it myself too. From what I've read some are also concerned that reduced engine height can effect timing as well. Is that true? or is it too small to make a difference?

I'll absolutely make sure the machine shop has everything they need to bore the cylinders out properly. Given that the torque plate is taking the longest they won't be able to start anyway. When I asked them if they use torque plates their response was "we don't use one unless one is provided". Makes sense for a shop thats been doing mostly american motors.

but I'm seriously thankful for you guys. I try to be very through with everything I do, but this knowledge you guys have doesn't seem to be anywhere accessible without me going down a rabbit hole. I would have really missed something that could have been catastrophic by now without either of you.

[ForcedFirebird]

Shouldn't use HG thickness to change CR, it messes with the squish. You want to aim for ~.040" between the piston and head, irregardless of compression. Too much, and you not only leave power ont he table, it actually will cause MORE hot spots (aka pre-detonation spots).

Usually a decking of the block will only take .002" (.05mm) which really shouldn't mess with anything. I just shaved an m52 block and the stamped numbers will still present (.0015" or .038mm). You should be fine with the stock thickness gasket, but you can always clay on final assembly for piece of mind. From memory, I want to say the stock s54 pistons are ~.010" in the hole, so with a .040" gasket, you have the typical BMW ~.050". Unless they take over .010", head and block combined, then you are well within factory rebuild limits. On an 87mm bore, you lose .5cc for every .1mm shaved. The chamber is 33cc stock, so a typical .3mm shave will give you about .4:1 more. The head chamber is smaller than the piston,so it will have even less effect than block shaving (block is easy to calc).

Always have the pistons in hand when over boring, if a machinist is willing to bore without them, run away - fast.

[moatilliatta]

Probably ok, the machine shop maybe able to CC the head and piston to calculate your CR. Then make a decision there for HG thickness if it’s too far out of spec.

[spike68]

Called both the machine shop and VAC motorsports this morning and knocked a few things out.

1. Called Ordered a torque plate, MLS Head gasket, and arp head studs on top of the forged piston kit from VAC. Also got an idea of lead times on everything. Piston kit, head gasket, and head studs are in stock. Torque plate is waiting on material to arrive. Will probably show up after the new year.

Note that VAC no longer rents out torque plates, however I did not speak to Hayyan but someone in sales and in their service department.

2. Called the machine shop and let them know of the change. They're cool with holding onto the block in the meantime and are looking to deck the block to make a nice surface for the MLS gasket. They noted to me that they all their work is to an MLS standard since it's mostly the kind of stuff they work on.

What I don't know is if I'll need a thicker head gasket for final assembly. From what I read stock head gasket is .040" so I went with that. I'll talk to the machine shop about the values they knocked the head and deck down by (something I should have asked about when I picked the head up. If it turns out I need something thicker it should be easy to sell this gasket.

[ForcedFirebird]

I just did a quick search, didn't use that exact link (would have to dig in records).

EDIT: Grant piston rings, Part # S5365