my own personal hell

[nando]

hey i don't get into acronyms and most of the time while reading this i've been drinking some guiness. so back off buddy





the main difference between MTI and ITB is a plenum in which or before which airflow is monitored, thats about it, ITB can have a plenum but not air monitoring in the plenum. thats the key - where the sensor is

uh, it doesn't work that way.

[whatt18yahoo]

uh, it doesn't work that way.

what doesn't work that way

So... You're finally admitting they're the exact same thing, it just depends where you tap for a sensor?...

i admit nothing of the same, just similarity, itb typically uses alpha-n or nothing more than a Throttle position sensor. MTI on the other hand utilizes all the original sensors and simply incorporates a few more butterflies, ITB can and usually does use velocity stacks and individual aircones (or filters) because it doesn't have any extra monitoring of the air intake - usually because it's NA. MTI differs from this as it has multiple sensors, multiple vaccume ports, and utilizes every necessary sensor so you can turbocharge without having to vastly modify the ecu parameters for it to work.

in short i admit nothing but a similarity

[nando]

what doesn't work that way






i admit nothing of the same, just similarity, itb typically uses alpha-n or nothing more than a Throttle position sensor. MTI on the other hand utilizes all the original sensors and simply incorporates a few more butterflies, ITB can and usually does use velocity stacks and individual aircones (or filters) because it doesn't have any extra monitoring of the air intake - usually because it's NA. MTI differs from this as it has multiple sensors, multiple vaccume ports, and utilizes every necessary sensor so you can turbocharge without having to vastly modify the ecu parameters for it to work.

in short i admit nothing but a similarity

jesus christ you are a retard. look at your own damn quote!

ITBs have nothing to do with alpha-N. do you even know what that is? you're totally talking out your ass now.

[Bishop]

My subaru had one throttle body and a turbo... seemed to work fine. If you're saying "MTI" is essentially using OEM sensors (which sensors are you specifically referring to?..) but adding more butterfly valves to the mix... That hardly seems smart. I understand ITB's, but your MTI definition is essentially using a stock set up, but using individual throttle bodies (bot not ITB's ;) )...? Please, correct me if I'm wrong, I guess I'm just getting confused as you try to explain it further... How are there power gains to be had with this setup?

[whatt18yahoo]

My subaru had one throttle body and a turbo... seemed to work fine. If you're saying "MTI" is essentially using OEM sensors (which sensors are you specifically referring to?..) but adding more butterfly valves to the mix... That hardly seems smart. I understand ITB's, but your MTI definition is essentially using a stock set up, but using individual throttle bodies (bot not ITB's ;) )...? Please, correct me if I'm wrong, I guess I'm just getting confused as you try to explain it further... How are there power gains to be had with this setup?

no direct power gains to really be had to be quite honest, the most i am hoping for is a little better throttle response, the goal to this setup is to take the heat away from the manifold, the intake normally sits ontop of the engine and gets soaked with rising heat (removing hood could easilly releive this or adding a hood scoop) by doing this setup i plan to pull the intake away from the heat of the engine as much as is possible. oh and it should look cool

the real advantage will come from the turbo, by changing the flow dynamics it should keep a more constant higher rate of flow, and allow the engine to breathe better, in fact thats going to be evident in NA as well. thats the main reason why all the m cars have MTI

[nando]

stop... Just stop.

[Bimmerman325i]

Bishop, he has no idea what he's talking about. Trust me on that one.

whatt18yahoo -- you're confusing tuning with the physical nature of the setup. More throttle bodies does not in and of itself mean better throttle response- the key is to tune the throttle body for the airflow of the motor with a little headroom, and to have a fast reacting tune and high resolution throttle position sensor, among MANY other things.

BMW only uses ITBs on the M motors because, I shit you not, "it looks cool." The new turbo M cars do not have ITBs. There's no point. They also have properly sized turbos, properly engineered intake and exhaust manifolds, throttle body sizes, lots of attention paid to fluid dynamics in the intake/exhaust system, and lots of other things you have shown yourself incapable of doing.

Do you even know what fluid dynamics is? Do you know how to design something that will flow better than stock at a chosen rpm range?

And you're also wrong on this point: all M cars that have ITBs have ITBs. Not your ITB-with-different-letters-distinction. Depending on which car, they run off of MAP, MAF, A-N, and hybrid setups for tuning.

Sincerely,

someone who knows more than you on motorsport engineering.

[decay]

no direct power gains to really be had to be quite honest, the most i am hoping for is a little better throttle response, the goal to this setup is to take the heat away from the manifold, the intake normally sits ontop of the engine and gets soaked with rising heat (removing hood could easilly releive this or adding a hood scoop) by doing this setup i plan to pull the intake away from the heat of the engine as much as is possible. oh and it should look cool

the real advantage will come from the turbo, by changing the flow dynamics it should keep a more constant higher rate of flow, and allow the engine to breathe better, in fact thats going to be evident in NA as well. thats the main reason why all the m cars have MTI

first of all you're wrong about all of this ITB crap (and you are the only person i've ever seen call them "MTI"s). they are the same thing, and whether you run them on motronic or megasquirt or alpha-N does not make one bit of difference as to what they are called. (i thought maybe you'd listen to someone who's already done it. probably not, huh?)

second of all, if all you want to do is keep heat out of the manifold, forget everything you're doing and have a phenolic spacer made to replace the intake manifold gasket with.

i know everything you are saying is coming straight out of your ass because the intake manifold picks up heat from the cylinder head- because it's CONNECTED TO IT- and anyone who can't think that far is an absolute waste of time, so i have no idea why i'm allowing myself to be dragged back into your thread.

[Bin_jammin]

the intake normally sits ontop of the engine and gets soaked with rising heat (removing hood could easilly releive this or adding a hood scoop) by doing this setup i plan to pull the intake away from the heat of the engine as much as is possible. oh and it should look cool

Engineer in training huh? Never learned that heat doesn't rise, but it radiates? Hot air rises. Second, you want to thermally isolate the intake from the engine, conductivity will put the most heat into the manifold, and a phenolic spacer will settle that. It's new-fangled technology that's only been around for like a hundred years or so.

thats the main reason why all the m cars have MTI

The us s50 and s52 didn't use ITBs. You're an idiot.


The thing that's amazed me all along is that people can come into this thread and not instantly understand exactly how ill-informed you are on EVERYTHING you speak about. One would think you'd accidentally sponge up some correct info as you go on and on, but you haven't even done that.

[ck_taft325is]

This fucking guy.

[whatt18yahoo]

i am a homosexual, i am deeply in love with fidhle, how dare you make fun of my hunny buns that way, you should quit working on your car and find someone who makes you as happy as my fiddle does.

i'm so glad you've come out of the closet now you and fidhle can get married. good luck to you and your fiddle. i will never quit working on my car. but i am so glad that you and little miss fiddle are going to settle down and make a little banjo

[ck_taft325is]

i'm so glad you've come out of the closet now you and fidhle can get married. good luck to you and your fiddle. i will never quit working on my car. but i am so glad that you and little miss fiddle are going to settle down and make a little banjo

The funny part here, folks, is that he probably thinks he's witty, comical, ironic and lovely all wrapped up in one flabby, pink package

I agree though, you'll need to keep working on your car because you're never going to have it running.

[constructor]

But guys, granted I'm no engineer, but it seems to me that if one throttle body gives one throttle response, then six throttles bodies would give six throttle responses. I'm no genius, but it seems like it would be better to have more throttle responses?????

[Wh33lhop]

But guys, granted I'm no engineer, but it seems to me that if one throttle body gives one throttle response, then six throttles bodies would give six throttle responses. I'm no genius, but it seems like it would be better to have more throttle responses?????

Shit I'm going to make a 12 throttle intake. Not like turbo choice and exhaust design will have more of an effect on throttle response than ITBs or MTIs or anything.

[constructor]

Shit I'm going to make a 12 throttle intake. Not like turbo choice and exhaust design will have more of an effect on throttle response than ITBs or MTIs or anything.

If my math serves me right, I think a twelve throttle intake will have twelve throttle responses. This would be much desirable.