Hilary plan vs. Obama plan

[scabzzzz]

You guys apparently havent been to the doctor in a while, or broken any bones, or needed follow up care for anything other than a sniffly nose in about 10 years. Anyone expecting children soon? I fucking hope not! Get out your fucking checkbook!

Im broke this year because I pay shitloads to Blue Cross for healthcare, then pay shit loads when bills come in. Healthcare is a joke how it sits right now. Republicans will have to agree at least to that. Why not stir the pot? If it doesnt work out, the next republican dickhead president will change it.

[kishg]

He, he. That must probably be worst than a Texas-born Evangelist-converted cocaine/alcohol addict and poll usurper (remember Florida?)

not texas born. dubya was born in new haven, ct. the bush's for all their pretenses to be good ole boys from the south are actually old money from new england.

[Jean]

here is a copy of the flowchart for the "new healthcare reform"

im not the smartest person in the world so i don't know what the hell the chart says. i stared at the chart for a good hour trying to follow all the lines and arrows but got lost around the consumers pic

What a maze!!!

[Collin]

Fail vs. Fail?

Come on now seriously, I love this country and our democracy. But, this is socialist. Everyone is like "omg health care!!" but, uhh... socialism???

Well said, you have changed my mind with your use of facts and english.

[thundering02]

You guys apparently havent been to the doctor in a while, or broken any bones, or needed follow up care for anything other than a sniffly nose in about 10 years. Anyone expecting children soon? I fucking hope not! Get out your fucking checkbook!

Im broke this year because I pay shitloads to Blue Cross for healthcare, then pay shit loads when bills come in. Healthcare is a joke how it sits right now. Republicans will have to agree at least to that. Why not stir the pot? If it doesnt work out, the next republican dickhead president will change it.

Yep... totally agree...cause holy ,,,, the prices.

[johnwoo]

You guys apparently havent been to the doctor in a while, or broken any bones, or needed follow up care for anything other than a sniffly nose in about 10 years. Anyone expecting children soon? I fucking hope not! Get out your fucking checkbook!

Im broke this year because I pay shitloads to Blue Cross for healthcare, then pay shit loads when bills come in. Healthcare is a joke how it sits right now. Republicans will have to agree at least to that. Why not stir the pot? If it doesnt work out, the next republican dickhead president will change it.

this is what i have to say. the 2 things driving up healthcare is:

1) drug costs
2) tests (labs, ct, mri, etc...)

to decrease cost reform needs to be done in these two areas.

drug companies need to be regulated on how much can be charged and for how long. drug patents are 7 yrs before generics can come out. government need to decrease this patent length. also you will not believe the prices the drug companies charge. its worse the dealerships. reform by obama will never happen in this area because obama is in the back pocket of all the pharmaceutical companies

reforms for malpractice need to be made. physicians order test many times un needed to cover their asses on malpractice. sometimes hospitals require tests to be ordered to reduce chances of a lawsuit other times the physicians order them just to protect themselves. the government need to make it harder for frivilous medical lawsuits.

how can the government do these two reforms.
1) set up a government pharmaceutical entity that buys medicine in bulk in turn at a cheaper cost. then there can be a reduced cost for most drugs. also decrease the length a drug can be on patent thus increase generic drug availability
2) set up a government agency to monitor medical lawsuits and reject frivilous lawsuits. if a lawsuit is deemed medically malpractice liable then it can be brought into the judiciary system.

i guarantee that those reforms in those areas will decrease healthcare.
national healthcare will not decrease healthcare costs.
everyone will have to pay for the uninsured.

have you guys wondered why if the national healthcare being proposed is so great that government officials and public figures are exempt from the program. so the program is good enough for my family and your family but not good enough for OBAMA's family?

[TexasTerp]

After watching the infomercial the other night, I'm even more pissed off at Obama. He specifically said that one way he want's to cut costs is to eliminate second opinions and "superflouos tests". His words exactly were "If you go to one doctor and they run a test, and then go to another for the same test, and then a third doctor for the same test, why not just stop at the first?"

Scenario 1:
Well a couple years ago I went to the ER for an immense stomach pain, the doctor told me it was a cramp and it would go away. I went to my family doctor the next day for a second opinion, turns out I had severe appendicitis, it wasn't just a mere stomach ache. Oh yeah, my appendix was also filled with gangreen, yes gangreen, and had burst. I literally died on the operating table for a little less than 30 seconds. If I had not gone to my family doctor for a second opinion I would be dead. Under Obama's health care plan I would not have been allowed to go to my doctor.

Scenario 2:
I went into the ER a few weeks ago after having a tough recovery from Severe Dehydration. The doctors ran 15 blood tests and 8 blood cultures to determine what was wrong with me. I had a "mystery bacterial infection". Turns out more than half of thetests they ran along with the blood cultures were not necessary and would not normally have been done, except that they decided to be safe even though it would cost my insurance more money. Those "extra" tests and blood cultures would not have been available to me under Obamacare. It just so happens that one of those "extra" tests came back positive and they were able to treat me for an infection that had nearly no signs other than my cough. The blood cultures also confirmed the problem. So now I'm back to full health, thanks to doctors who to the extra precaution, luckily I'm not on Obamacare otherwise they never would have been able to treat me correctly.

Im broke this year because I pay shitloads to Blue Cross for healthcare, then pay shit loads when bills come in. Healthcare is a joke how it sits right now. Republicans will have to agree at least to that. Why not stir the pot? If it doesnt work out, the next republican dickhead president will change it.

The reason Obama wants this bill to move quickly and why he's pushing so many of his bills right now is because he knows that once it becomes law it is a 100 times harder to change or alter the law after the fact. So you're wrong, the next "republican dickhead" won't be able to change it like you think. Oh, and I pay $300 a month for myself for insurance, and made barely over the poverty line last year, so If I can do it so can you. The problem is too many people in this country feel entitled. If the government can give it to you and take it away, it is not a RIGHT!! It is a priviledge!!!!

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes while personally I have never had a issue like this, My G/F has and much the opposite of your experience

She is prone to Strep throat, and has not had it in a few years. Well 2 years ago she had a massively bad sore throat. We went to the her doc, she looked at it took a culture and wrote a scrip for Penicillin. Well 10 days pass till meds run out all while her throat gets much much worse. We go back and see a different doc (hers was on vacation) and she looks and sends us down to the Hospital to get a mono test done, and writes a scrip for the next antibiotic up. 3-4 more days go by test is back and its not mono so all in all the G/f has had this throat issues for nearly month including the time she lived with it before her 1st visit. By this time she is starting to have a hard time breathing and we go back to her doc and they give her more low strength antibiotics, That night she is starting to struggle to breath while laying down. SO I said fuck it you are going to the ER the admin nurse treated her like shit because all she had was a sore throat. Well the ER doc looks for 2 seconds and flips the fuck out on the admin nurse. She had a tonsiler(sp) Abscess the size of a golf ball in there. He could not believe that all the docs she had seen missed it. Well all in all they sucked 8cc of puss out of it and he estimated that much also ran down her throat. Well a round of IV antibiotics and some horse pills she made a full recovery and still has her tonsils

Obama Care would not have let her see the uselss doc and the ER would have had to fix it in the 1st place mostly due to the wait to see the doc the 1st time.

[M-technik-3]

Anybody notice but Congress is exempt from this program.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124536864955329439.html

[StereoInstaller1]

this is what i have to say. the 2 things driving up healthcare is:

1) drug costs
2) tests (labs, ct, mri, etc...)

The thing that drives up healthcare costs is INSANE greed.

When my daughter was born, I looked over the bill.

There was a box of Kleenex (which we did not open or use, nor request)


It was $31.00


in 1989.


Bullshit like that is WHY health care is so expensive in this country. If they charged $31.00 for a $1.89 retail box of Kleenex, what is the profit margin on that MRI? What margin on some simple shit like getting a wart removed?

Does anyone know the average hospital stay is 5 days?

Average cost is about $3500/day?

What the FUCK could possibly cost so damn much?

What has ruined the healthcare system in this country is the absolutely insane greed by hospital staff. They claim profits are down...if so, why is director/chief Surgeon pay up?

All of this "healthcare plan" bullshit only prolongs the pain America feels. As soon as the actual costs have some reform (yes, Republicans, read that as REGULATION), there will be no decent care for un-or-under insured Americans.

[h0lmes]

The thing that drives up healthcare costs is INSANE greed.

When my daughter was born, I looked over the bill.

There was a box of Kleenex (which we did not open or use, nor request)


It was $31.00


in 1989.


Bullshit like that is WHY health care is so expensive in this country. If they charged $31.00 for a $1.89 retail box of Kleenex, what is the profit margin on that MRI? What margin on some simple shit like getting a wart removed?

Does anyone know the average hospital stay is 5 days?

Average cost is about $3500/day?

What the FUCK could possibly cost so damn much?

What has ruined the healthcare system in this country is the absolutely insane greed by hospital staff. They claim profits are down...if so, why is director/chief Surgeon pay up?

All of this "healthcare plan" bullshit only prolongs the pain America feels. As soon as the actual costs have some reform (yes, Republicans, read that as REGULATION), there will be no decent care for un-or-under insured Americans.

A lot of it has to do with advertising, at least in regards to prescription meds which make up a HUGE chuck of healthcare costs. Drug companies spend 10x as much on advertising as they do on R&D. Drugs do not need to be advertised to the extent that they are, it is predatory and should be illegal like it is in many other countries.

[johnwoo]

The thing that drives up healthcare costs is INSANE greed.

When my daughter was born, I looked over the bill.

There was a box of Kleenex (which we did not open or use, nor request)


It was $31.00


in 1989.


Bullshit like that is WHY health care is so expensive in this country. If they charged $31.00 for a $1.89 retail box of Kleenex, what is the profit margin on that MRI? What margin on some simple shit like getting a wart removed?

Does anyone know the average hospital stay is 5 days?

Average cost is about $3500/day?

What the FUCK could possibly cost so damn much?

What has ruined the healthcare system in this country is the absolutely insane greed by hospital staff. They claim profits are down...if so, why is director/chief Surgeon pay up?

All of this "healthcare plan" bullshit only prolongs the pain America feels. As soon as the actual costs have some reform (yes, Republicans, read that as REGULATION), there will be no decent care for un-or-under insured Americans.

many times the reason hospitals jack up costs because reimbursement is so shitty.
on that box of kleenex they charge 31 but how much are they getting back in reimbursement? .30 on the dollar? hospitals are still overcharging and i can't defend that.

i hope you have evidence to back up the increase pay. physician salaries have pretty much stayed the same or has increase at a lower rate than yearly inflation which actually means physicians make less than what they made in the 80s. other fields such as pa, nurses, techs, have all increased. if you don't trust me look at the data and look at the rates of increase and compare it to yearly increases of inflation.
yeh im sure there is the extremes like every field. i have over 200k in student loans when i got done. im paying on those now. i started my career in the hole.
many physicians do not have delusions of making it rich by going into the medical field. it provides a career that is stimulating and challenging at the same time rewarding. but physicians are also not here to work for free.

if physician reimbursement is complete shit your not going to attract the smartest and innovative people into the field. they are going to do something else that pays better. then you will have a shortage of physicians like in canada and who is going to take care of your new 50 million uninsured people that have suddenly been insured.

[johnwoo]

Scenario 1:
Well a couple years ago I went to the ER for an immense stomach pain, the doctor told me it was a cramp and it would go away. I went to my family doctor the next day for a second opinion, turns out I had severe appendicitis, it wasn't just a mere stomach ache. Oh yeah, my appendix was also filled with gangreen, yes gangreen, and had burst. I literally died on the operating table for a little less than 30 seconds. If I had not gone to my family doctor for a second opinion I would be dead. Under Obama's health care plan I would not have been allowed to go to my doctor.

the er doc that treated u was an idiot. just based on physical exam a competent doc would be able to rule out or rule in appendicitis. you should have had a ct of your abdomen. but alas like every field there idiots and unqualified people.

just like mechanics there are good ones and bad ones.

[Dillinger]

Sounds like time to enact the Dillinger escape plan.

[kronus]

Sounds like time to enact the Dillinger escape plan.

Go to somewhere that isn't the US?

Oh wait, the rest of the first world already has a proper healthcare system. Shucks.