Fundemental difference between Liberals and Conservatives

[Alkasquawlik]

obama is a catholic? crap..

Obama is a Muslim....

[Alkasquawlik]

no doubt about that but it's funny how you agree that anyone should be able to own/carry a gun but want to prevent a woman's right to choose. :p

to be clear i think abortion should be discouraged but that's the job of parents not the govt.

Let me see if I can exress my thoughts on this.

Gun control vs abortion/women's rights.

I'm all for you having a gun if you choose to own one. However, if you are an idiot and decide to shoot someone, then take responsibility for your actions.

I'm all for having sex if you choose to do so. However, if you get knocked up and have a kid, take responsibility for your actions.

I don't want to stop you from owning a gun/having sex, but when you make poor choices and the consequences come back and bite you in the ass, don't try and take the easy way out.

[Joey Link]

My turn. I'm 27, I used to be extremely liberal and I've worked on many campaigns for liberal candidates. Grew up a minority (though I'm white), very poor in one of the worst neighborhoods in Portland. I'm not really sure what my parents believed in politically back then (I remember they voted for Reagan and Clinton?), but now my mom is liberal and my dad is conservative.


- abortion: Yes. I think it's a poor choice, but it's still a persons choice. If you eliminate all choice from the equation and force that person to have the child, they're either going to try to destroy it themselves, abuse their bodies, or at the very least resent him or her. In any of those scenarios, it's bad for the child. It's tough because I don't believe the government should have any control over a persons body, but when one person creates another person that resides within them I think it changes a bit. Regardless, I think abortions past the first tri-mester are horrible, and I think this should be a state issue.

- gay marriage: I don't think the government should recognize marriage, period. I believe if two people, regardless of gender, want to get 'married' that's between them, and possibly their religious (or other) organization. Civil union licenses should be available for those who wish to have legal standing for civil court, hospitals, benefits, etc. There should be no taxes or tax breaks based on a persons relationship with another person. In my opinion this is tax discrimination, some people will never get married not by choice but due to life factors (looks, disabilities, etc.).

- death penalty: Absolutely, but only where there is no question of ones guilt. And not this 10 years on death row, hundreds of thousands of dollars crap, I mean with Chinese efficiency.

- gun control: None. You people that want to put requirements on gun ownership have no concept of the second amendment. You cannot have the entity you were granted the right to protect yourself from deciding who is qualified to exercise that right.

- religion: Religious freedom is extremely important in a free nation, as well as the separation between church and state. This is a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles (according to the founders), but that does not make Christianity a 'preferential' religion to others. I consider myself a Christian, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the existence of god, though I sometimes pray when I'm in a jam. I believe in Jesus, and follow his teachings as best I can in my everyday life has really done some amazing things for me. No matter what you believe in, I believe it's important to believe in someone or something higher and larger than yourself. That faith is where miracles come from.

- income bracket: Ha, what income? I have assets because I'm a fiscal conservative and smart with my money. I've been living on less than $10k/year for five years now, and I'm not looking for a handout. It's my choice, and if I didn't like it I would work to change it. Those of you complaining about a 'living wage' and all this other crap, I'm a living example that with restraint you can easily stretch your budget and live a pretty damn good life.

- homeowner: Nope.

- in favor of burning gasoline: Absolutely, but I believe we really do need to come up with a replacement from a national security and environmental standpoint. By 'we', I mean we the people, as in private entities. Government should not be involved in any way, shape, or form. I think electric is our best bet because it's so versatile, as in it can be generated and converted in many different ways, and I'm 100% for nuclear power.

- do i believe in global warming: I believe the world is getting hotter, but I absolutely believe in the cyclical theory. The earth has warmed and cooled since it's very beginning. Despite what Al Gore wants you to believe, I've never seen any credible data that showed an increase in C02 preceded an increase in temperature. I'm extremely happy that people are starting to question this, as well as the IPCC.

- economics: I'm about as fiscally conservative as they come. The government should spend only what it absolutely needs and give back to the people the excess through lower taxes.

- wars in iraq/afghanistan: I'm not happy we went in, I think we were safer with Saddam in power. I think our interventionist policies are one of the reasons people around the world and all these terrorist regimes hate us so much, not because most of us have flat screen TV's and our women have equal rights. However, now that we're there I believe we have a responsibility to the people of those countries to stay there until the job is done. Another thing that troubles me is I sometimes question whether or not we have a moral obligation to use our great resources to try to right some of the wrongs in this world, even if it means war. Though, I don't believe either of these wars would have fallen into that category, I think Africa can use some help. Then again, they are sovereign nations, and who are we to come in and say 'you can't do that'? I don't think we have the right.

- universal healthcare: My god no, this is the dumbest government program I've heard of in my lifetime, and I seriously question the intelligence of it's proponents (luckily only around 35% of Americans now). Why are we going from what we've had to the most extreme option on the table in a matter of months? It's stupid! Like I told someone in another thread, would you rebuild your engine if you had a misfire a tune-up might fix? There are so many things we can do at little or no cost to us that would greatly help health care, yet very few of the politicians are talking about those things. And why isn't anyone talking about cost? They're only talking about how to pay for it. This is just like the school system, they're just going to keep throwing money at it to cover the costs. Luckily even many Democrats don't support this program, and I have confidence it's not going to pass.

We need to get government out of health care, not more involved!

- immigration: I differ from many of my libertarian friends here, I think we need a wall as soon as possible, one similar to the one in Israel. Not only for the illegal immigration, but also for national security. If there were no illegal immigration I would still advocate the building of a wall (and yes, on the Northern border as well). Illegal immigration is a blight on this country and it's infrastructure. Our hospitals are forced to provide free health care, our jails are packed, the vast majority of people here illegally don't pay taxes. Once the wall is built to stop the problem, I *might* willing to listen to options as to what to do with the ones that are here instead of deporting them. I also think our legal immigration system needs an overhaul, and I'm all for allowing more people to become legal citizens.

- drug policy: I added this one, I believe drugs should be legal. Which one of you can't get any drug you want within a couple of days, and most drugs within a couple of hours? Laws preventing drug use do not work, just like gun control doesn't work. We're funding this 'war on drugs' that we cannot possibly win. If you take drugs and kill yourself, that's your fault, and your choice. I believe we should be able to grow Marijuana in our backyards, tax free, but I'm speaking of harder drugs as well. Personal choice, personal responsibility.

[kishg]

I'm not getting into this discussion but I will say one thing... liberals seem to lack all things common sense. While conservatives lack open-mindedness.

Also I find it fucking hilarious that Obama and libtards will support abortion when their religion they say they belong to is so opposed to it.

obama is a catholic? crap..

[jrhaile]

I'm not getting into this discussion but I will say one thing... liberals seem to lack all things common sense. While conservatives lack open-mindedness.

Also I find it fucking hilarious that Obama and libtards will support abortion when their religion they say they belong to is so opposed to it.

[kishg]

I thought about that a little more after posting,

Usually a good idea to think a little more before posting :p

it's really not black and white. There are so many different circumstances and situations that pop up with that topic.

I find that's true with most topics. Nothing is ever as clear cut as the proponents of one side or the other want you to believe.

People need to take responsibility for their actions.

no doubt about that but it's funny how you agree that anyone should be able to own/carry a gun but want to prevent a woman's right to choose. :p

to be clear i think abortion should be discouraged but that's the job of parents not the govt.

[iamsam]

I thought about that a little more after posting, it's really not black and white. There are so many different circumstances and situations that pop up with that topic. I just think it's a little unethical for people to fuck endlessly, and then find out they're pregnant, and basically cop out.
People need to take responsibility for their actions.

yes very true.

Abortion doesn't necessarily hurt the economy, abortion is one of those issues where people's morals and beliefs dictate their opinion.

[Alkasquawlik]

your post makes no sense.. how does abortion hurt the economy?

as for the ix, i'll be back in one soon..

I thought about that a little more after posting, it's really not black and white. There are so many different circumstances and situations that pop up with that topic. I just think it's a little unethical for people to fuck endlessly, and then find out they're pregnant, and basically cop out.
People need to take responsibility for their actions.

[kishg]

I genuinely feel bad for people in dire circumstances, and I am all for helping the ones who want it.

Legalize, decriminalize pot. I don't care. It doesn't affect me.

other social things like that I tend to lean to the left, but not at the expense of the economy. if it's at the expense of the economy, tough shit, life sucks.


You're just jealous I still have an iX and you sold yours off for some worthless S14.

your post makes no sense.. how does abortion hurt the economy?

as for the ix, i'll be back in one soon..

[Alkasquawlik]

based on your later post i call :bs:

I genuinely feel bad for people in dire circumstances, and I am all for helping the ones who want it.

Legalize, decriminalize pot. I don't care. It doesn't affect me.

other social things like that I tend to lean to the left, but not at the expense of the economy. if it's at the expense of the economy, tough shit, life sucks.


You're just jealous I still have an iX and you sold yours off for some worthless S14.

[kishg]

as someone who's taken the time to think on the matter and wound up a non-believer, i realize that death is the end, and it follows that to live carelessly or without self-awareness would be a huge waste.

+1

[kishg]

fwiw, I am socially liberal

based on your later post I call BS.

[kishg]

EDIT: Thank you for taking me seriously originally. Usually Liberals don't take Conservatives seriously. (joke)

and vice versa.. sorry i misunderstood your comment. anyways i dont believe belief in god has much to do with it. that's like saying if you believe in god your a neo-con. plenty of religious folk on both sides.

[dvs909]

Yeah, the fact that religion has any impact at all on legislation is disgusting. This is a very diverse country and religion has no place in laws, schools, the workplace, ect. This country was founded primarily by deists. "Under God" wasn't added until the 50's. During the 20's and into the 40's there was a large atheist movement spurred by urbanization - but the cold war wiped that out. People either don't understand history or ignore it. I don't think anything good comes out of Religion mixed with politics.

I am following you here, but for different reasons. my belief is that it is the role of the church to help those who need it, and the government is only there to regulate.
I am currently pissed off at my church, they just built a $30 million dollar expansion, and all i can think of is how much that could have helped my community.

[iamsam]

the fact that college kids live for the moment and don't think about death has more to do with that they are college kids than their political bias.

right, and because they are college kids and think the way they do creates the political bias.

as someone who's taken the time to think on the matter and wound up a non-believer, i realize that death is the end, and it follows that to live carelessly or without self-awareness would be a huge waste.

if death is the end, what would living carefully and with self-awareness be?

Yeah, the fact that religion has any impact at all on legislation is disgusting. This is a very diverse country and religion has no place in laws, schools, the workplace, ect. This country was founded primarily by deists. "Under God" wasn't added until the 50's. During the 20's and into the 40's there was a large atheist movement spurred by urbanization - but the cold war wiped that out. People either don't understand history or ignore it. I don't think anything good comes out of Religion mixed with politics.

just clarifying, what you mean by this is that religion of any kind should not be impressed upon anybody in laws, schools, and workplaces?