Shit hits the fan in Fort Hood, Texas. 50 casualties.

[chadthestampede]

Lefty's will attack Christians and Christianity, yet they will make a million and one excuses for Muslims...

Though I really don't want to get involved with this argument, you kind of have to admit this is true. Look at when South Park was mocking Family Guy and Comedy Central made them sensor the Mohammad scene.

[E30 Cabrio]

I regard on what Muslims brought us in terms of knoweldge, the amount is huge. And interestingly, this was brought by religious guidance.

Medecine, mathematics, geometry, astronomy. Without them, the world would still be in the dark ages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy_in_medieval_Islam

As for DVS909, I wonder how old is that dude, and what type of life experience he has to be able to even mention such stupid blank statements as he did. BTW What private school and public college did you attend?

Add crazy fuckin' suicide bomber to your list...

[E30 Cabrio]

Lefty's will attack Christians and Christianity, yet they will make a million and one excuses for Muslims who fly airplanes into tall buildings, blow up crowds of people and shoot up military bases.

Nothing but enablers...

[Emre]

To answer the first question, let's say within the last 100 years.

Two of the three examples I listed happened in the 20th century. In the case of Kosovo, the Christian majority killed 200,000 people, raped 50,000 women, and chased over 2million people from their homes. All for being Muslim. This isn't ancient history...it happened in the 1990s. How much more recent do you want?

I specifically reject the argument that Christianity is more violent than Islam so therefore Islam is not violent.

No one is making such an argument. No one says Christians are worse. I just think it's funny when Christians try to argue that Islam is a religion of hate and Christianity is a religion of tolerance. Modern Islam might have it's Wahhabi wackos, but Christians also have blood on their hands. It's not fair to condemn the peaceful majority for the actions of the lunatic fringe.

Still, I grant you that Christian history is replete with horrible atrocities, just as with almost every single history of any large group of people is. But that isn't a valid argument as to whether or not Islam is a violent religion.

The whole argument is ridiculous to me. If you call Islam "a religion of hate" based on the actions of a small group of fanatic Wahhabi terrorists, then you should consider Christians mass murderers. Be consistent.

However, I am not so sure that Islam does not preach violence on a relatively large scale.

Just read the Quran and you can answer that for yourself. The Quran doesn't "preach violence" any more than the Bible does.

So, intrinsically, Islam is not a religion of violence. It is simply used as a tool by very bad people to inflict the damage for the advantage of whoever is their leader.

In that way, it is just like every other religion: it basically means well, but it can be corrupted by evil men. Again, what's the difference?

Islam my not be a religion of violence, but it certainly seems to be a religion that is easily corrupted into violence. And the whole of Sharia, which you haven't comment on at all, seems to support a certain level of barbarism in Islam. Or is Sharia not a real thing and is it not actually practiced by Muslims?

The overwhelming majority of Muslims in the modern world do NOT live under Sharia and absolutely do not WANT to live under Sharia. Sharia is only practiced in a handful of places and most Muslims would never want to live in those places.

[der affe]

the holocaust was NOT based on christianity. it was loosely based on Aryianism, played off of pre-existing antisemetic feeling in Germany, and was also for sociao/ecomonic reasons along with Hitler's ideals and hatred of the Jews (also connected with his belief in Aryianism). the Church of the Creator (creatard!) is Aryanism hiding behind the mask of a socially more exceptable christian belief system.

there are many many bad things done in the name of christianity, but this is not one of them.

[Vedubin01]

I was just told to check out this video called Fitna by Geert Wilders. I found it cut up on Youtube. Quite shocking and would like to get feedback from the few Muslims here.
Fitna part 1/4 English Geert Wilders!



Follow the links for the other 3 parts. Im currently watching myself.

[Hallen]

The answer is simple: some people who follow Islam are loony. That doesn't mean they're all loony. And it certainly doesn't mean that the religion is about being loony.

So far, we haven't seen Muslims conducting the large-scale murder of non-Muslim people. But we have seen Christians commit genocide against non-Christians on a truly staggering scale. Just three examples are:

• the Spanish Inquisition
• the Holocaust
• the "ethinic cleansing" in Bosnia

I can also think of a few examples in Africa. On a smaller sclae, you've got the "God Hates Fags" crazies and people who kill gynecologists for doing therapeutic abortions. Does all that make Christianity a religion of hatred, bigotry, and mass murder? Is intolerance and ethnic violence what Christianity is "all about?"

Answer that before throwing stones at other religions.

To answer the first question, let's say within the last 100 years.

Interesting rebuttal.

I of course agree with your first statement. There are loonies of just about every type out there. The Muslims have their fair share... which means there are a whole lot of them.

I can't see how you can possibly make the second comment. I would think 3000 dead in one whack would be considered a large number. Are you saying that 9/11 were not done by Muslims or that the reason they did it was not because of religious fervor? I grant you that you can definitely include these people in your loony bin, but still, they were what they were. And 9/11 has not been the only mass execution, by far. It even seems to go as far as blowing up other Muslims because they support democracy or because they are of the wrong tribe.

I specifically reject the argument that Christianity is more violent than Islam so therefore Islam is not violent. Still, I grant you that Christian history is replete with horrible atrocities, just as with almost every single history of any large group of people is. But that isn't a valid argument as to whether or not Islam is a violent religion.

The holocaust was fueled by a madman who was a bigot. He didn't do it because he thought his religion told him to; he did it because he hated Jews. There's a big difference there.

The ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and that region has gone both ways over the years. Not a pretty picture at all.

Your last point is also true. There are stupid, fanatical loonies out there who are Christians and they do horrible things. They are generally isolated however. There is a larger sect of strict Christians who disapprove of things like the gay lifestyle, abortion, and other topics. However, as sour as these people are, they generally do not ever resort to violence.

I do understand what you are trying to say. Just because there are a few loonies in the Christian religion who do horrible things like kill doctors, does not mean the religion preaches violence. I would agree with that. However, I am not so sure that Islam does not preach violence on a relatively large scale.

And just so you know, I'm agnostic. I don't go to any church. So I am no fan of Christianity either.

Now, if you were to argue that it is more of a social/economic problem, then you might gain some ground here.

So, intrinsically, Islam is not a religion of violence. It is simply used as a tool by very bad people to inflict the damage for the advantage of whoever is their leader.

Honestly, I don't completely buy this one either, but at least it explains the situation to an extent based on the facts.

Islam my not be a religion of violence, but it certainly seems to be a religion that is easily corrupted into violence. And the whole of Sharia, which you haven't comment on at all, seems to support a certain level of barbarism in Islam. Or is Sharia not a real thing and is it not actually practiced by Muslims?

And please don't get me wrong. I will not judge a man based on his religion or lack thereof. I judge the man on who he is. This is not an argument based on a general hatered. It is an argument based on what the evidence seems to indicate.

[Alkasquawlik]

So in reasoning, Homosexuality is considered to be forbidden then, right?

As much as lying, cheating, etc is forbidden, but people still sin because it is in our nature.

[kishg]

No worries.

No, it doesn't say that. It does say that homosexuality is a sin, and God hates sin (He hates the sin, not the sinner).

that's true.. yet so many Christians hate gays.. so just as with Islam, the problem lies in the people who pretend to follow it not the religion. of course i have a more fundamental problem with all these religions which is that I do not believe in a divine being who created the universe but that's for a different thread ;) I however respect all religions and the freedom to do so irregardless of my personal beliefs or the lack thereof.

[ak-]

No worries.

No, it doesn't say that. It does say that homosexuality is a sin, and God hates sin (He hates the sin, not the sinner).

So in reasoning, Homosexuality is considered to be forbidden then, right?

[Vedubin01]

no worries.

No, it doesn't say that. It does say that homosexuality is a sin, and god hates sin (he hates the sin, not the sinner).

+1

[ben312]

No worries.

No, it doesn't say that. It does say that homosexuality is a sin, and God hates sin (He hates the sin, not the sinner).

gotcha

[markseven]

not starting to start shit or anything but in all fairness your bible does say god hates gays.

No worries.

No, it doesn't say that. It does say that homosexuality is a sin, and God hates sin (He hates the sin, not the sinner).

[ben312]

Well said (written?) and I agree with your sentiments 100%. You left out slavery, btw.

I think it would help if Muslims were more vocal in regard to their disdain for the fringe/extremist element. Is there accountability in the Muslim community or is it brushed under the proverbial rug?

By exposing and holding accountable, I think Christians, the ones with a relationship with Christ, not the "religious types", have effectively separated ourselves from the lunatic fringe that bomb abortion clinics and carry signs that say God hates this or that.

not starting to start shit or anything but in all fairness your bible does say god hates gays.

[markseven]

The answer is simple: some people who follow Islam are loony. That doesn't mean they're all loony. And it certainly doesn't mean that the religion is about being loony.

So far, we haven't seen Muslims conducting the large-scale murder of non-Muslim people. But we have seen Christians commit genocide against non-Christians on a truly staggering scale. Just three examples are:

• the Spanish Inquisition
• the Holocaust
• the "ethinic cleansing" in Bosnia

I can also think of a few examples in Africa. On a smaller sclae, you've got the "God Hates Fags" crazies and people who kill gynecologists for doing therapeutic abortions. Does all that make Christianity a religion of hatred, bigotry, and mass murder? Is intolerance and ethnic violence what Christianity is "all about?"

Answer that before throwing stones at other religions.

Well said (written?) and I agree with your sentiments 100%. You left out slavery, btw.

I think it would help if Muslims were more vocal in regard to their disdain for the fringe/extremist element. Is there accountability in the Muslim community or is it brushed under the proverbial rug?

By exposing and holding accountable, I think Christians, the ones with a relationship with Christ, not the "religious types", have effectively separated ourselves from the lunatic fringe that bomb abortion clinics and carry signs that say God hates this or that.