Health care

[rwh11385]

social security is in danger of going bankrupt unless something is done to change it but at the same time it did radically change the outlook of most people's lives. just ask your grandma. while i regret the fact that what i pay today goes to fund old people who didn't pay nearly that much into the system ( i don't think your grandma should be driving a caddy on my dime), it's not really a failure. i was in favor of the bush proposal to create social security accounts and let people invest that money.

as for medicare, what makes you think it's a failure? last statistics on it I saw are that it's operating overhead is somewhere around 3%.. making it far more efficient than any private healthcare insurance in the US.

I hate it that it is pay as you go and not forward-looking enough to be able to deal with the changes that have occurred (people living longer). Taking away from everyone so there's a baseline level of services for people who can't take care of themselves. I'd like it better if the government would be more concerned with protecting my rights to life, liberty, and property rather than ensuring there are no hurdles for people who should have been Darwin award winners. I could do better on my own with my own money to take care of myself rather than handing it over in Obama We Trust.

Its costs are just getting out of fucking control. Nice idea, but it's easier to think of a warm happy thing to promise and another to be able to fund it. I forget where I posted it on here, but mandatory spending from promises decades past are growing and the revenue generation isn't keeping up. And once you make it policy, it's nearly impossible to take back. Where does it stop? When we bleed out?

[mrsleeve]

But that won't change under this bill. Also, those numbers are assuming they are footing the entire bill with no employer contribution correct?

Ahhhh but it will my friend.


Since his plan only costs him 3600 a year that is far below the Govt approved cost of a plan that he will have to purchase immediately with no grace period, one a approved plan is aviable. The cost of that approve plan had been figured up to be about 5400 per year.

SO HIS SAME PLAN WILL NOW COST 5400 rather than 3600 just to have the privileged of a govt run insurance. thats an increase in premium of 1800 bucks or 150 more per month. Or to put it to you this way, thanks to the Govt interference it will now cost him 450+ per month rather than 300. On 20k + some side work, thats a huge dent in your monthly budget.


The sooner you see this is all a smoke and mirrors approach to taking away form those that work and make something with their lives and giving to those that refuse to, the better off you will be.

[stegosaurus]

But affordable health care is NOT what this bill is about. This bill is about the government controlling health INSURANCE. That is a very different thing than controlling health care costs.



The health care is heavily regulated already. That's where a lot of the costs come from. Some of the regulations are good in that it greatly reduces the ability of charlatans and snake oil salesmen from entering the market, but mostly they just unnecessarily raise costs without raising the level of care.

And again, you are referring to health care costs when this bill addresses health insurance. In fact, what it does is tax the snot out of people who don't have health insurance. Which is a wicked weird way of doing things. Also, this bill relies heavily on those fines to fund itself. So if everybody complies, then the government option will fail because it doesn't have funding. What kind of sense does that make?




More than that. The timing will never be right for this. It is a poorly crafted bill that has hugely negative economic, freedom, and bad health issues associated with it.


They have their own bills drafted but they can't make it to the floor because they don't control any of the committees. For every Democrat bill proposed, there have been an equal number of Republican bills proposed. They say that the Republicans have not offered any alternatives. That's simply not true. The Democrats blow them off because those Republican bills don't include public options and don't force huge and unworkable regulation down the throats of insurance providers and employers.



While pity and a desire to help in a reasonable way may exist in all of us, we would differ on the "how" part. First, I guarantee that woman and her kids already have access to health care. And I bet they can all get it for free. There are already massive government programs for that kind of thing. What she doesn't have is health insurance. It is understandable since all insurance plans are required by the government to cover massive amounts of stuff that this woman doesn't need so are very expensive.

The second point here is that it is her responsibility. She had three kids and has no husband. Did she really not learn her lesson after the first one? Or, did her husband die? What kind of good father and husband has no life insurance for that contingency? It comes down to a personal responsibility issue. If she was stupid enough to have three kids with no way of supporting them, then I have a lot of sympathy for the kids, but none for her. I am not about to willingly pay for her mistakes. Having the government force me to pay for her mistakes is even more evil. It is nothing more than theft.

There are ways of dealing with that kind of thing that doesn't directly involve the government and allows those of us who want to help to do so. You'll get a lot more people helping if the government wasn't already bleeding us dry.

Just in case anyone missed this. He's on the ball.

[TexasTerp]

But that won't change under this bill. Also, those numbers are assuming they are footing the entire bill with no employer contribution correct?

Yes, these numbers are based on no employer contribution since I am not employed by or receive benefits through another business.

Sleeve is correct is some ways, mostly because I am self employed. What will happen is that I will be allowed to keep my private insurance, what does change is that I will have to either opt into the Gov't Health Insurance Exchange Program or I will have to upgrade my current health insurance plan to one provided by Aetna that meets the Gov't standard (requirements include minimum premium price, as well as type of coverage.) This means higher monthly costs for me and most likely worse coverage. The irony of the situation is that I will be "upgrading" to a worse plan, my deductible will be higher and my coverage won't include out of market coverage (I spent 6 months researching my plans before my parents coverage ran out.)

Since I rarely go to the doctor and the only times I do is for a serious illness issue, twice this year in the ER ($50 co-pay), I have a perfect plan for me. My ER visit this year happened in New Hampshire (out of market) and I was told by the opera company I was with to go to the ER so I made my $50 co pay and they ran 26 different tests just to come back with an inconclusive result and put me on major antibiotics and meds to combat a bacterial infection they couldn't identify. Without my insurance the drugs would have cost $350, with my insurance they cost me $10. I go to my ENT twice a year for chronic Sinusitis, my scope and MRI costs me $7. Any other coverage plan would not allow me to keep my costs as low as they are (for instance I would have to pay the normal $300 for an MRI).

The last thing I want to do is "upgrade" my coverage to a more expensive plan that doesn't give me my flexible total coverage I have now, or I will have to find a job with a company that provides similar benefits, but that severely cuts into my ability to be a performer, My audition season starts now and goes through late december, which means I'm gone 3-4 days a week to NYC, I also work for opera companies in the summer for 4 months. Finding a full time employer willing to let me perform on my own terms is near impossible. That's why I'm a freelance web designer. So basically even though I'm in the tax bracket of the people this is meant to help, it actually screws me over far more than just leaving the system alone. I totally agree we need Health CARE Reform, not Health Insurance reform.

[Alkasquawlik]

most of you already know my position on this.

[KenC]

I totally agree we need Health CARE Reform, not Health Insurance reform.

How do you propose to universally improve care?

As a medical school applicant I'm interested in this.

[kishg]

most of you already know my position on this.

if aimless meanderings can be called a position yes :p

[kishg]

Yes, these numbers are based on no employer contribution since I am not employed by or receive benefits through another business.

Sleeve is correct is some ways, mostly because I am self employed. What will happen is that I will be allowed to keep my private insurance, what does change is that I will have to either opt into the Gov't Health Insurance Exchange Program or I will have to upgrade my current health insurance plan to one provided by Aetna that meets the Gov't standard (requirements include minimum premium price, as well as type of coverage.) This means higher monthly costs for me and most likely worse coverage. The irony of the situation is that I will be "upgrading" to a worse plan, my deductible will be higher and my coverage won't include out of market coverage (I spent 6 months researching my plans before my parents coverage ran out.)

you may be right, i didn't read the latest bill in entirety. i don't expect my costs to change because my employer already picks up most of it and i expect them to continue to do so. since you already read the legislation, can you point out to me the section where you feel you will need to change plans? it's nice to have a reasoned discussion with someone who actually knows what they are talking about for a change.

[LBJefferies]

How do you propose to universally improve care?

As a medical school applicant I'm interested in this.

The focus needs to be put on disease prevention and finding cures for said diseases as opposed to treatment of symptoms.

[87e30]

This will also hurt people who don't use conventional health care means.

My mom uses a lot of more natural doctors if you will, no sort of mainstream hospital stuff. (except for emergencies of course)

Now if I'm reading this correctly, she will be required to get a government approved plan which I'm going to assume is going to cost her a lot more than the bare bones plan she is using right now. And she won't even use what it is giving her. Plus she is a small business owner so there is no company that is going to be helping her out.

From where I'm sitting (granted I'm not even in the real world yet) I can't comprehend how this is going to benefit anyone except for those making so little that they can't afford a plan at this moment and will now get a gov't subsidized plant. I'm sure someone out there could point out some benefits to me though? (attempt at real discussion)

[kishg]

T

My mom uses a lot of more natural doctors if you will, no sort of mainstream hospital stuff. (except for emergencies of course)

who do you think pays for those emergency visits?

[der affe]

The focus needs to be put on disease prevention and finding cures for said diseases as opposed to treatment of symptoms.

fuck you hOlms! dammit for once i have to agree with you. the world is now going to end.

[KenC]

The focus needs to be put on disease prevention and finding cures for said diseases as opposed to treatment of symptoms.

Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent every year researching cures for diseases by some of our nation's brightest minds. Progress can be very, very slow, and we need to treat symptoms of uncurable diseases in the meantime.
There isn't one health care provider I know that doesn't overtly encourage their patients to lead a healthier lifestyle.

[87e30]

who do you think pays for those emergency visits?

She does, with the health coverage that she does have. I just have talked to her about this before and I know that her coverage is very minimal b/c she doesn't fully utilize it. The only time I can recall that she has ever been to the hospital is when she cut her finger off. (yes it was stupid, that's not important)

So I guess I'm saying she's going to need to increase her coverage to meet a gov't approved plan yet she's not going to get more out of it.

[kishg]

So I guess I'm saying she's going to need to increase her coverage to meet a gov't approved plan yet she's not going to get more out of it.

how do you know that? insurance is about risk management, if i knew for sure what was going to happen in the future i'd be on a bugatti veyron forum ;) if your willing to make the choice of death vs insurance then by all means but in reality what happens is that if you cannot afford it, the rest of us end up paying for it.