Health care

[mrsleeve]

I have to say this made me laugh so hard beer came out my nose!!!!

fuck you hOlms! dammit for once i have to agree with you. the world is now going to end.

[87e30]

if your willing to make the choice of death vs insurance then by all means but in reality what happens is that if you cannot afford it, the rest of us end up paying for it.

Please correct me where I'm wrong, but this is how I read your statement.

If you can't afford health care then the government (people paying taxes) ends up stepping in and paying for your medical costs so that you can get the procedure/drugs/help that you need.

Therefore it's better if we (the government) pay for everyone to recieve with health insurance so that later if someone needs the coverage the government will not have to step in later and cover for it?

So in the case of my mother, if something terrible were to actually happen now she's paying to be covered where as with the current system she may end up not being covered which would place the burden onto the government (people).

Am I understanding correctly?

[kishg]

i'm not making any statement for or against. i'm merely saying that people with no insurance should not go around thinking that is a decision that affects them alone when in fact it affects society as a whole because as a society we've decided that we won't let people die when they cannot afford to pay their medical bills.

[markseven]

i'm in two minds about it.. on the one hand, i do believe that as the most advanced democracy in the world, everyone should have access to affordable healthcare and that the health care insurance industry needs to be regulated to ensure that as they won't do that out of their own accord. On the other, i am against increasing taxes and penalties to pay for it.

My feeling is that the timing is off on this. If the economy were stronger and we were out of the two ridiculous wars we're fighting, this could be done without higher taxes. those supposed cuts to medicare will never happen. we know that. as for higher taxes on high earners, I think the entire convoluted tax code needs to be revamped and made simpler, the current system doesn't work.

i'm not endorsing the republican view of lets just sit on our asses and do nothing but yell at the other side either.

"The Congressional Budget Office Wednesday night released its cost analysis of the Republican health care plan and found that it would reduce health care premiums and cut the deficit by $68 billion over ten years.

The Republican plan does not call for a government insurance plan but rather attempts to reform the system by creating high-risk insurance pools, allowing people to purchase health insurance policies across state lines and instituting medical malpractice reforms."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/CBO-Prepublican-health-plan-would-reduce-premiums--69270747.html

Saw this on the Bimmerfest PolySci board.

[mrsleeve]

As it stands right now you cant be denied treatment, based on your ability to pay. You will be treated and will be taken care of regardless!!!


I have a buddy in MI whos his neighbors step son fell off a wagon during home coming. The kids foot got caught in the wheel well and got drug along for 200 feet I guess. The 1st weekends bill was 98k and the kid was in the hospital for 3 1/2 weeks. He was not turned away for lack of ability to pay

i'm not making any statement for or against. i'm merely saying that people with no insurance should not go around thinking that is a decision that affects them alone when in fact it affects society as a whole because as a society we've decided that we won't let people die when they cannot afford to pay their medical bills.

[kishg]

As it stands right now you cant be denied treatment, based on your ability to pay. You will be treated and will be taken care of regardless!!!


I have a buddy in MI whos his neighbors step son fell off a wagon during home coming. The kids foot got caught in the wheel well and got drug along for 200 feet I guess. The 1st weekends bill was 98k and the kid was in the hospital for 3 1/2 weeks. He was not turned away for lack of ability to pay

exactly. guess who is paying that 98k?

[kishg]

"The Congressional Budget Office Wednesday night released its cost analysis of the Republican health care plan and found that it would reduce health care premiums and cut the deficit by $68 billion over ten years.

yeah but it does little to expand coverage, isn't that the entire point of this exercise?

[87e30]

exactly. guess who is paying that 98k?

Out of curiousity, and I doubt that anyone actually knows the numbers on this, but:

Is it cheaper to pay for people as they need it. (IE this kid that fell off of a wagon)

Or is it cheaper to pay for everyone all of the time so that they are covered in case of something like this happening?

That is an interesting point kishg.

However... I'm still against the control that this bill hands to the government.

[blunttech]

Out of curiousity, and I doubt that anyone actually knows the numbers on this, but:

Is it cheaper to pay for people as they need it. (IE this kid that fell off of a wagon)

Or is it cheaper to pay for everyone all of the time so that they are covered in case of something like this happening?

That is an interesting point kishg.

However... I'm still against the control that this bill hands to the government.

its cheaper to pay as you need it. think of it this way. if the local drugstore was giving away free anal-eeze do you think kishg and lbjefferies would wait until they needed it? no, they would be stocking their medicine cabinet till the door wouldnt close.
anyone who thinks this is a good idea is a fucking fool.

[mrsleeve]

His family is, along with all the rest of us through when we get get services paid for by out premiums. You dont think I dont know that.

But there is S-chip, that ought to pick this up, paid for by more middle class taxes and sin taxes


Nice try though ;)

exactly. guess who is paying that 98k

Why do we need to expand coverage??? Why not expand competition which in its self would make many more affordable options

yeah but it does little to expand coverage, isn't that the entire point of this exercise?

[kishg]

Why do we need to expand coverage??? Why not expand competition which in its self would make many more affordable options

and how do you propose to expand competition?

[mrsleeve]

do you not read the whole thread or some thing look on the 1st page. That and I have said it upteen times before.

here click ------> http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...04&postcount=9

and how do you propose to expand competition?

[markseven]

i'm not endorsing the republican view of lets just sit on our asses and do nothing but yell at the other side either.

I was addressing this ^^^^^^^

AFAIK, expansion is an element of healthcare reform, not an "at any cost" goal. Even with the dem's reform bill, a large amount of people are still left out in the cold.

[stegosaurus]

Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent every year researching cures for diseases by some of our nation's brightest minds. Progress can be very, very slow, and we need to treat symptoms of uncurable diseases in the meantime.
There isn't one health care provider I know that doesn't overtly encourage their patients to lead a healthier lifestyle.

Perfect examples of advancements in prevention can be found in the past few months. Identification of the HIV genome, identification of an HIV antibody, using natural embryonic stem cells to grow 'patches' of cardiac muscle and implant them into mice with simulated MI's, identification of histones as a major component in the 'domino effect' seen in multiple traumas (car accidents), infections (septic shock), and post-operative procedures - a histone antibody targets them for destruction and the body's immune system decreases the amount of histones in the blood (no more domino effect). The histone antibody will be entering clinical trials in humans soon, and as an EMT, I'm very excited to see how this plays out.

Also consider that a large number of people go to the hospital with raging infections (in septic shock) which are life threatening. This is one step closer to simplifying treatment for a large number of hospital cases, saving time and money.

If you want more information, I can refer you to the articles.

Healthcare isn't cheap, consider that pharm's spend around $6million to create a new drug, and that 99% of those drugs that they come up with don't make it to clinical trials, leaving them with a whopping 1% to start testing, which isn't cheap either. Also take into consideration that the remaining 1% will be cut down during trials and that no drug is ever safe from recall.

There's a lot that goes into keeping people healthy, and it's not a cheap process. I really don't understand how people can expect to get so much for so little, always. Whether it's talking down the price on a car, or throwing a fit over an expensive but lifesaving procedure; if it's not free it's not good enough.

Nobody has the power to determine the cost of healthcare, how much is your life worth to you? I'll tell you right now mine is worth it to me. I'll also tell you that while I'm more than happy to bag a drunk college student all the way to the hospital, paying for his stay in the hospital isn't on my list of things to do. I have no sympathy for people who suffer at the hands of their own neglect.

This had better not make it any farther.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am starting to like you