Obama to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan

[decay]

Again, you're muddying the waters.

Of course, you have no problem with Massive Lee making claims he can't back up though, right?

Who is lost in their own agenda?

I posted evidence along with URL's refuting his claim.

He posted "Google it" as his evidence.

i'm not even setting foot in the waters; i have not supported his arguments over yours. truly, i don't have a dog in the fight, because assigning blame as to who did what, when, brings about no appreciable change in the situation we're in now- and that last bit is what actually matters.

the fact that i think you're insane because you're ready to believe the word of an ideological mass-murderer (as long as doing so exonerates the people you support and elected), doesn't mean i'm biased towards lee. it just means i think you're fucking insane.

[mar1t1me]

I'm taking into account facts, including OBL's own words from 1993 and 1996 which some people choose to ignorantly ignore in favor of speculation from agenda-driven, biased web sites with little credibility.

Again, why do you believe him? Give me one good reason why you would take the word of a terrorist speaking to a British (unlikely to be Muslim, therefore an INFIDEL) reporter? He has every reason to disinform!

I'll believe you are correct in your assertion that Osama got no American money or arms when you prove you know where it all ended up! Simple as that. Once funding and armament leaves American control, it is all over. No accountability. Please note: I am not saying "yes they did" to your "no they didn't". I'm saying it is entirely possible for OBL to have acquired American money and arms indirectly. You have to admit the possibility.

I absolutely love the Bearden quote! A CIA man from those days daring us to prove allegations of funding! A CIA man,-you know, the ones that get paid to not divulge secrets???? :up:

But he said so, so it must be true! Same with OBL, right? How cute! How naive! Why can't Foreign Affairs always be so simple and forthright?

The Persian Gulf is a fucking Black Hole. Money and arms go in and are never heard of again.

[bmwstephen]

I'd watch what you say about Canada or any other country for the fact of the matter. Their citizens are more productive than we are and not to mention a lot of our goods come from them. Finally, this "loonie" country is financing our deteriorating way of life. I suggest we start giving more respect to other countries as they now have the ability to make our life much more miserable without their charity. America is no longer a country who can call the shots. We think we do but the rest of the world just puts up with us. After all... we do owe the rest of the world trillions of dollars.. To bring it to a level anyone can understand.. if I owe you tons of money, do I call the shots or do you?

[E30 Cabrio]

i didn't say you were wrong. i said you were too lost in your own biased agenda to bother arguing with, and i don't think you're self-aware enough to refute that, so don't bother.

Again, you're muddying the waters.

Of course, you have no problem with Massive Lee making claims he can't back up though, right?

Who is lost in their own agenda?

I posted evidence along with URL's refuting his claim.

He posted "Google it" as his evidence.

[Nicademus]

I dunno about troops but I just can't stop fantasizing about Obama and Larry Sinclair. Soo hot right now.

[decay]

LOL - what's this have to do with Obama?

Nothing, just more muddying of the waters.

I've posted links, facts and direct quotes from the people involved and not one single lunatic fringe website either.

Unless you have something factual to counter what I've posted, you have nothing.

i didn't say you were wrong. i said you were too lost in your own biased agenda to bother arguing with, and i don't think you're self-aware enough to refute that, so don't bother.

[E30Kaiser]

e30 cabrio. Either you have short term memory, or are under 25 years old. This is not fresh news that CIA funded and helped the Afghan Mudjahidins against the Russian invaders and against the Marxist Afghan governement. And who was leading the Afghan Mudjahidins? Yup. Our good friend Bin Ladin. CIA has its hands dirty for having fed an organization that later fought back against the US.

You are making false conclusions, Bin Laden WAS NOT leading the Afghan Mudjahidins. You know who was? No single person, because it isn't an organization to begin with, its a general term. If you have ever read the book, "Afghanistan: The Bear Trap", it is quite interesting on how the USA funded certain Afghan Warlords through Pakistan. While we don't know if Osama got any US money, I highly doubt it. To begin with he didn't need it, he was extremely rich by himself, and also any money he needed on top of that was coming in from Saudi Arabia. Quite coincidental that the group that took over after the fall of the communist regime was Wahhabist, which the only other wahhabist government in the world is Saudi Arabia.

As for believing Osama about getting money or believing other news sources, neither is a good source to believe, both have poltical reasons to get their version of the truth out there. The closest any of those articles come to making a clear point is Benazir Bhutto and the Prince of Saudi Arabia saying Osama at one point was thankful to the US, and I am sure he was for our help against the Russians, but there is little beyond that to prove anything on the subject.

[E30 Cabrio]

Lefty logic:

"The US supported the Afghan rebels in the Soviet conflict.

Therefore, they also supported OBL..."

That is the epitome of intellectual laziness...

Having a common enemy does not make them allies and it certainly isn't proof that the US/CIA trained or assisted OBL as claimed by Massive Lee.

[E30 Cabrio]

lee-

you're arguing with a guy who is so deeply mired in the party-line bullshit that he is absolutely sure Obama is lying about everything (because he's a Dem, obv. it is so), but is willing to take the words of a mass-murderer at face value.

lost cause. let it go.

LOL - what's this have to do with Obama?

Nothing, just more muddying of the waters.

I've posted links, facts and direct quotes from the people involved and not one single lunatic fringe website either.

Unless you have something factual to counter what I've posted, you have nothing.

[E30 Cabrio]

Why do you believe Osama? He could have had political reasons to deny working with the CIA. To take his comments at face value given his position seems irresponsible in the absence of further support.

It is also possible that American arms ended up in Bin Laden's hands through other means.

Fact is you or I don't know anything about this subject we haven't been told by someone else!

Hell, America can't account for $8.8 Billion dollars of money sent to Iraq. Now where do you suppose it went?

We know we pumped billions of dollars and lots of arms into the Persian Gulf area back in the Afghan-Soviet conflict. What we don't know is where it all went.

I'm taking into account facts, including OBL's own words from 1993 and 1996 which some people choose to ignorantly ignore in favor of speculation from agenda-driven, biased web sites with little credibility.

And anyone who knows anything about OBL knows that he despises the US and would never work with us.

And again, the issue of who we supported in the Afghan war with the Soviets has already been addressed:

Those who contend that bin Laden received U.S. funds usually make the following argument: America financed the Afghan rebels, bin Laden was among the rebels, therefore, in one way or another, America gave money to bin Laden.

This ignores a key fact: There were two entirely separate rebellions against the Soviets, united only by a common communist enemy. One was financed by Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states and was composed of Islamic extremists who migrated from across the Muslim world. They called themselves “Arab Afghans (search).” Bin Laden was among them. When the Saudis agreed to match U.S. contributions dollar-for-dollar, the sheikhs insisted that their funds go exclusively to the “Arab Afghans,” possibly including bin Laden. Meanwhile, U.S. funds went exclusively to the other rebellion, which was composed of native Afghans. Mr. Bearden told me: “I challenge anyone to give any proof that we gave one dollar to any Arab Afghans, let alone bin Laden.”

[mar1t1me]

OBL, in his own words and on the record has stated 2x in the 1990's that he did not work with the US or receive any assistance from them.

Why do you believe Osama? He could have had political reasons to deny working with the CIA. To take his comments at face value given his position seems irresponsible in the absence of further support.

It is also possible that American arms ended up in Bin Laden's hands through other means.

Fact is you or I don't know anything about this subject we haven't been told by someone else!

Hell, America can't account for $8.8 Billion dollars of money sent to Iraq. Now where do you suppose it went?

We know we pumped billions of dollars and lots of arms into the Persian Gulf area back in the Afghan-Soviet conflict. What we don't know is where it all went.

[decay]

Have you Googled what I asked you to? No need to retype the exact same words as in your previous post. buddy. All I read is bold text that you claim is the ultimate truth. I am curious as to how old you are. You don't seem to have much knowledge of your own country's history and military implication over the last decades.

Do you even remember Oliver North and the sale of US weapons to an ennemy country: Iran? With profits being used to support anti-communist guerilla in South America. Do you remember Ortega, Noriega? CIA made so many bad choices. Google is your friend.

lee-

you're arguing with a guy who is so deeply mired in the party-line bullshit that he is absolutely sure Obama is lying about everything (because he's a Dem, obv. it is so), but is willing to take the words of a mass-murderer at face value.

lost cause. let it go.

[Anthrax]

Wait, are we talking about "Operation Cyclone", or something more recent?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

[E30 Cabrio]

BTW, I did "Google" and it turned up a bunch of lunatic fringe web-sites making all sorts of speculative, unsubstantiated claims.

I guess if OBL's own words aren't good enough for some people then what is?

[Hallen]

... Google is your friend.

Yes it is. And it also the doorway to every single crackpot theory all backed up by 'evidence' and such. If you read it on Google, it's got to be real, yes?

Sure, the CIA has been mucking around with 3rd world, banana republics for years looking for a certain level of stability that would allow the US to work effectively in those regions. Did they do a bad job of that? Possibly. But one thing I can guarantee you: You have no fucking idea of the real circumstances and why decisions were made the way they were made at the time they were made. I also guarantee you that many liberal dominated administrations were just as deeply involved in that kind of stuff as conservative ones. And I also guarantee that your vaunted Canadian government was well aware and probably lent support to that kind of thing as well. They just don't take responsibility for it.

So, what exactly is your point? Are you trying to say that Afghanistan would be a model nation now if the US hadn't back Noriega??