Obamacare is passed.....let the outrage

[LBJefferies]

you are a stupid liberal hippie but you make our job too easy. all we have to do is let you type to prove what a fucking moron you are.
you wont even know how this effects you until its too late.
if they were giving out free bongs out at the local head shop would your type be more likely to go get one? eventually they would have to ration those bongs because all the stoner losers would be stampeding the door to get their free bongs.
same goes for your wonderful health care. wait until medical doctors make 60k a year. youll really get the best and brightest signing up for med school then. the norm seems to be punish success and drive small business out right out of business. who the fuck is going to employ your worthless ass when it makes more sense to shut the doors than to continue getting fucked by the government who pisses our money away and rewards lazy illegals and welfare slime? ive planned for the future and ill probably be ok but half of you fuckers are in your 20's and will realize far too late that youre going to have a 3rd world existence . and i would laugh at you obama loving fools except i have kids your age i care about who will also suffer

What is your beef with health care reform?

[gwb72tii]

there may be nothing wrong with reform if that was what was passed by either house of congress
but its not
its a 60yr wetdream of the democrat party
its about having the fuckall government in your life, and having to kneel in front of government asswipes
if all it was was reform, 60% of the public might be for it instead f against it

[mrsleeve]

What is your beef with health care reform?

If you think what is on the horizon is reform, then I really do feel sorry for you.

[ck_taft325is]

What is your beef with health care reform?

I was going to say something small in your defense, but then you opened your mouth again.

In what state of mind do you really have to be in to think this is "reform"? It's just like when the Democrats (in office mind you) claimed that we should grant all illegals, legal immigrant status. Whoever uposed the idea was strung up as "inhumane, cold hearted" towards "those escaping a terrible existence" and then Republics "want to watch children starve from drug cartel infested countries!". I would be the first one to say that things need to change, and how we go about it (it being health care or immigration) needs to change, but when on this planet has throwing money and more Government at a problem fixed it in the slightest? This is not reform. This is an ideal that has taken precident over reason and logic.

[Aptyp]

Actually, LBJ last response makes sense, in the way that we're now left with choosing between two evils. I saw a little comparison between two bills on yahoo the other day.


Quite honestly, and this is for me personally, I like senate bill. It's practically free healthcare with $95 deductible once a year. Seriously, it's a $95 tax penalty for not having health insurance. Knowing that my girlfriend's meds cost about $150 per month, I think it will save us a lot of money.

I just want to know, which one of you liberal yuppies will be paying for her meds. Call me naive, but even if we're both penalized $95 a year, and our current insurance costs us $176 per month, we'd be saving 11 months worth of insurance payment. It makes no mathematical sense, but I will sure as hell jump on board to milk the system. Almost $2000 in savings per year could allow us to save more money for a house. Tax-payers will have to pay those $2000 plus every doctors visit between two of us. If I do it, a rational thinking family man, what says everyone on my block won't do the same?

This is what I don't understand though, what's the point of interfering with the system. Current boundaries prevent free market, yet liberals bash it for not working. Open borders between states and see free market in action. Medical research should be subsidized instead of subsidizing pharmaceutical companies in charge of research. Tax-payers pay for most medications twice, and there's no cap on costs, as there's no competition in place. We have 50 types of aspirin on the shelf at walmart, yet there are some meds that are locally regulated against generics. Since government is paying for research, regulates distribution, and unsuccessfully runs medicare and medicaid, maybe current system is already too socialized? Just wondering, when will we try something new instead of stumbling down a beaten path?


Also, I'd like to say that Marxism and Leninism and other socialistic ideologies aren't bad ideas. They work incredibly well is small communities. That's the entire idea, though. People that attend the same church or live in the same neighborhood help each other out of the goodness of their heart. Socialistic ideologies work amazingly when they're not forced on population. r3v is a great example of that, we're all here, we all have different views, but when we need e30 help or looking for a certain part, we come together and help (except for those with low self-esteems, small cocks and e-thug issues). Liking e30 isn't forced on us, and we all want to be a part of this community.

[ck_taft325is]

Socialistic views are fantastic IDEALS. In practice, rarely do they pan out when, as you said, forced upon the masses as a standard OR mandatory. Under penalties it's not out of the goodness of anyones heart or sense of community. And again and again History proves when a Socialistic regime steps into power it's less for the "better of everyone" and much more about gaining power. Because it gives a select few individuals power over a great deal of people. Not just in the sense of law enforcement, but more along the lines of telling them how to eat, sleep, pray, think, feel, give, take, walk, cut their hair, breath and what is or is not acceptable.

Well... everyone on your block would do the same if you're an evil, slacker, abuser of the system - or so anyone for this health care "reform" bill would have you believe. Honestly, you're just being smart. That's the over all problem with the bill. For example, I qualify for disability, but have not claimed it mainly because I don't want to be a burden on our already ridiculously taxed system. I not only qualify, I would qualify for more than I currently make in either of the fields I work/can potentially work in (at my current rate and/or experience in either). Heh, that and I truly enjoy feeling as though I accomplished something with my two hands. Yet I feel more and more like just taking the "hand-out", staying at home and spending gobs of time with my first born little dude. Ideally though, everyone should be able to stay at home with their loved ones all the time and never have to lift a finger to get calloused. Or come home with a sore back and tired feet.

[Aptyp]

I was just trying to make a point... Religious right has all socialistic principles in place. They all go to church, abide by same rules and are practically forced into submission with fear of greater power, while are viewed "equal" in the eyes of a supreme being.

Religious republicans and democrats aren't very much apart. Everyone wants what's best for our country, people just have different ideas on how to get there.

There was good point about "security" that government shall provide and that illnesses are a threat to American dream/lifestyle. I could see that point of view and argue for it. I just don't understand democrats asking for a reform of a system that's already cornered. Government is the reason why healthcare in this country costs what it does.

My understanding: Medicare and Medicaid pay on behalf of those, who can not, right? There's a lot communication lost through paperwork and bureaucratic process. Government is simply undermanned to deal with every hospital and every medical procedure. Hospitals now can inflate their costs. Be it for money lost in ER or to buy new medical equipment, hospitals now inflate their price of healthcare. There's no reason for why assisted living costs $1200 a day at a hospital and is covered in full by medicare. At the same time, it would be inhumane and unethical for government to decide when to pull a plug... So now medical system is milking government, and government simply can't monitor current medical practices on individual basis.

So is anything in the current bill any better? Current bill talks about cutting medicare and medicaid costs, but that can't happen without hiring thousands of new employees to oversee those programs. It will create temporary jobs and a false sense of security, because once medicare and medicaid are under control, all those jobs and then some will be lost along with jobs and hospitals that created to deal with those two programs. Those people now won't be able to pay taxes and will be forced to join others in line for a hand out. NOW we HAVE penalize those with means to support those without. Then we'll elect another Robin Hood.

I don't like religious right. I don't like their condescending approach to many issues. I don't agree that US is founded on biblical creed. I believe that bible was written out of philosophical principles for the times of need. I am a jew and I a long time ago, came to a conclusion that my ancestors were full of shit and made the whole bible thing up. My last name from old hebrew literally translates to "story teller". I saw how great jews were at business and entertainment, and I realized that religion (of any kind) is a great way to make a living and still keep sheep-followers morale high. It's just my point of view, and I may not know any better until I kick the bucket and sent to hell, but any vote by church is a vote for socialism, because it takes individualism away and makes people see things in two opposite scopes: right/left, good/evil, and etc..

I don't like religious fanatics as much as I don't like liberal arts college kids getting degrees in bullshit. They;re another group of whiny polarized douche-bags that have wasted their life studying something absolutely idiotically intuitive. Seriously, young democrats? You are triple majoring in photography, travel, sociology and minoring in bowling, psychology, english and fashion design? You got so many degrees yet work as receptionist at some crummy attorney's office or selling phone service door to door? I am not fond of this bunch either.

Maybe, I'm just not a very social person.

[LBJefferies]

Actually, LBJ last response makes sense, in the way that we're now left with choosing between two evils. I saw a little comparison between two bills on yahoo the other day.

Fucking thank you! It's as if people just skip actually reading what I have to say and jump right to the insults.

Ideally I didn't want a public option. Its possible to keep costs down by controlling them across the board, and still keep insurance private. That is what I wanted.

At this point though, it's between the public option (which WILL keep costs down) or mandated private insurance which could allow insurance companies to jack prices way up. The public option is the lesser of two evils in this situation.

Aptyp, I am pretty sure that the 95 dollar fine in the Senate bill will jump to 750 dollars after a few years.

Also, its 'socialist' not 'socialistic'.

[LowR3V'in]

This whole sham is like going to buy a car that you dont like, but still have to make payments on it for 4 years before you even see the damm thing.

here this may help you understand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

And once you get that new 50k car, you take it to Mexico, and
get in a wreck.
Then your insurance denies coverage, and you're stuck paying off the
rest. Then you lose your job and can't make any more payments.

What happens next? :pimp:

Allot of underage posters in this thread.
"obama is lord"
"channnnnge"

[menusk]

i hope none of you guys who are so opposed to this never get sick. the number one cuase of bankruptcy is medical expenses. i would gladly pay more taxes to help people out. all we can hope for is that government....yes government, makes the best choice possible given the shitty options theyve presented us. but without getting our foot in the door and learning what works and what doesnt we will never know. I can gaurantee when our founding fathers created the constitution not 100% of the population was on board witch is why it can be changed, a living document to adapt to the times. ive never heard of an alpha (the first) anything working flawlessly. But without a chance its easy to criticize, and without a chance its easy to fear.

[gwb72tii]

Fucking thank you! It's as if people just skip actually reading what I have to say and jump right to the insults.

Ideally I didn't want a public option. Its possible to keep costs down by controlling them across the board, and still keep insurance private. That is what I wanted.

At this point though, it's between the public option (which WILL keep costs down) or mandated private insurance which could allow insurance companies to jack prices way up. The public option is the lesser of two evils in this situation.

Aptyp, I am pretty sure that the 95 dollar fine in the Senate bill will jump to 750 dollars after a few years.

Also, its 'socialist' not 'socialistic'.

the problem is the public option would not keep costs under control
there is no competition when one side, the government "public" option, sets and controls all the rules that everyone has to play by. the "public" option does not have to operate at a profit, it can do whatever it wants because it forces all of us to pay for it, we have no choice.

[mrsleeve]

i hope none of you guys who are so opposed to this never get sick. the number one cuase of bankruptcy is medical expenses.

Little thing called responsibility and priorities (you obviously have not developed these yet), You see You make that health insc. payment 1st and for most, then the mortgage/rent, heat and elec. bills. What you have left is what you use for food, even if all it is ramen and spam (I have been this broke before). If thats all you can afford then you cut the cell phones the internets, cable tv, all the stuff that you can live with out.

When I get laid off and dont have enough hours to keep me paid up till the next job gets going. I make sure I have enough money to make that 800 a month self payment and make sure the little woman's 500 a month premium is paid. If was stupid and planed badly I make scarifies and sell shit, or go with out stuff and eat shit till I get back on my feet.

You dont see me bitching about what it costs for health care insurance do you, that 500 a month for hers is more that worth it if she did get sick, or hurt or what ever. Its all about personal responsibility, you should be taking care of your self and not make all the rest of us (govt) do it for you.

i would gladly pay more taxes to help people out. all we can hope for is that government....yes government, makes the best choice possible given the shitty options theyve presented us.

SAY WHAT????? This is how I know you are still in high school. You see if you would gladly pay more taxes to help people, then why not figure out how much you would be willing to pay and donate it to a not for profit foundation or hospital or clinic that helps those that need it pay medical bills????? Seems like a better use of your money to me, that way you know where its going and how its going to be used, you can specify what you want you donation to be used for in most cases, plus it lowers your tax burden over all so its a win win for you. Rather than have some arbitrary amount that may or may not effect your standard of living forcefully, under penalty of law taken from you with no say how its used or to where it goes. Which would you rather do???

he govt has come up with the choices all while exempting them selves from the system, they are not makeing a choice about whats best for you or me or the homeless guy up the street they are doing whats it the best interest of them selves and their long term agenda, which is really some thing you dont want to happen. That agenda has been being fought since the birth of the nation and the 1st continental congress, this bill will give it another leap and bound to its realization. You been reading marx or something for home work????

but without getting our foot in the door and learning what works and what doesnt we will never know. I can gaurantee when our founding fathers created the constitution not 100% of the population was on board witch is why it can be changed, a living document to adapt to the times. ive never heard of an alpha (the first) anything working flawlessly. But without a chance its easy to criticize, and without a chance its easy to fear.

We know what they are pushing us into dose not work look to the UK/Canada/France or any other place that dose this shit, it dose not work.

The founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what has happened to their country they fought and died to create. The Constitution is a living document yes, but its change is not to be considered lightly fuck it, go read some on the toipic of the Constitution, here some recommendations 1) Bill of rights 2) the Constitution 3) the federalist papers 4) Thomas Paynes Common Sense 5)the 5000 year leap. That will get you started, when you are done come back and I will give you more. Then maybe you would understand a bit more about how this country is supposed to be.

I will end with this in regards to your more govt and Constitution remarks

"A republic, if you can keep it" - Ben Franklin The thing is we are losing it, dont get the quote, go look it up and figure it out.

[menusk]

Trust me im not in highschool. My company pays fully for my healthcare benefits. I get an excellent wage which i dont mind sharing if it can help at least one,with this healtcare or any other healthcare plan, yes only one person i will. I do give to shriners charity every two weeks from my paycheck with a company match so its an excellent donation. You shouldnt make assumptions becuase you know what happens when you assume. I agree with personal accountability and paying your bills and im glad your responsible. I just hope that, if and quite possibly when, you need a helping a helping hand a fellow American like myself will hold out his hand and offer assistance. And that you dont run into a self centered me me me ego centric narcissist as yourself who is afraid to help becuase of taking a chance. Thats all ill post here because we will not change each others view but i like seeing opposing views. I will agree to disagree.

[ck_taft325is]

Trust me im not in highschool. My company pays fully for my healthcare benefits. I get an excellent wage which i dont mind sharing if it can help at least one,with this healtcare or any other healthcare plan, yes only one person i will. I do give to shriners every two weeks from my paycheck with a company match. I agree with personal accountability and paying your bills. I just hope that, if and quite possibly when, you need a helping a helping hand a fellow American like myself will hold out his hand and offer assistance. And that you dont run into a self centered me me me as yourself who is afraid to help becuase of taking a chance. Thats all ill post here because we will not change each others but i like seeing opposing views. I will agree to disagree.

You make next to no sense. Here's a question: Will you still donate when you're being taxed at a huuuge ammount? Will you aspire to make more money for you and your family, to give them a better life if it means you'll get taxed up to 40% off the top? Or will your donations die out. Will you just accept that you make more money (which by the by, also means you can help more individuals as uposed to the "majority" which is not a guarantee) by making less and paying less in taxes?

Take a real strong and focused look at France, UK and Canada. The biggest majority to shout with glee for the "free" health care are those on it and not paying into it, while most of the sick come across borders to actually get treated in a way that helps them.

Where's the line, people? When does the cost of the old, terminally sick and dying become a matter of finances with the Government which concludes in euthanizing those viewed as simply a "drain" on the system? When abortions become a way of life to control the population? Sure, these sound a bit ridiculous and you may even think nay-sayer'ish. But it's looking more and more real to a large, large bit of this Country. Democrats are hailed as all heart. But with out the logic, your "heart" towards the people actually becomes a noose which you willingly slip over the heads of other people with their own hard owned money. Point and case with how the Government will run this health care is evident in that they claimed full disclosure and "transparency" yet has failed to be even the slightest bit transparent in nearly every facet of their decision making.

I care deeply for my country and believe we are what we are because of the brave men who stood against what the Socialist country started forcing down their throat. Because in this eventuality it is not just the "evil rich, white man" that suffers. It's the blue collar workers like myself. People in means seem to be much more confident about voting away those who don't have means' earnings. This administration wants us to think we're fully dependant on them. We are not. They want us to rely on their "good will" and all we must do is not question or think for ourselves.

God Bless this Country and our President. I hope beyond hope that everything works out. I hope my son can grow up in a country where people have a future and hope in what they believe they can accomplish. Make no mistake though, I will stay vigilant as every American should to stand watch against threats foreign and domestic.

[pureaudio]

You make next to no sense. Here's a question: Will you still donate when you're being taxed at a huuuge ammount? Will you aspire to make more money for you and your family, to give them a better life if it means you'll get taxed up to 40% off the top? Or will your donations die out. Will you just accept that you make more money (which by the by, also means you can help more individuals as uposed to the "majority" which is not a guarantee) by making less and paying less in taxes?

Take a real strong and focused look at France, UK and Canada. The biggest majority to shout with glee for the "free" health care are those on it and not paying into it, while most of the sick come across borders to actually get treated in a way that helps them.

Where's the line, people? When does the cost of the old, terminally sick and dying become a matter of finances with the Government which concludes in euthanizing those viewed as simply a "drain" on the system? When abortions become a way of life to control the population? Sure, these sound a bit ridiculous and you may even think nay-sayer'ish. But it's looking more and more real to a large, large bit of this Country. Democrats are hailed as all heart. But with out the logic, your "heart" towards the people actually becomes a noose which you willingly slip over the heads of other people with their own hard owned money. Point and case with how the Government will run this health care is evident in that they claimed full disclosure and "transparency" yet has failed to be even the slightest bit transparent in nearly every facet of their decision making.

I care deeply for my country and believe we are what we are because of the brave men who stood against what the Socialist country started forcing down their throat. Because in this eventuality it is not just the "evil rich, white man" that suffers. It's the blue collar workers like myself. People in means seem to be much more confident about voting away those who don't have means' earnings. This administration wants us to think we're fully dependent on them. We are not. They want us to rely on their "good will" and all we must do is not question or think for ourselves.

God Bless this Country and our President. I hope beyond hope that everything works out. I hope my son can grow up in a country where people have a future and hope in what they believe they can accomplish. Make no mistake though, I will stay vigilant as every American should to stand watch against threats foreign and domestic.

Very well said.