Campaign spending

[mar1t1me]

People making money is not evil, no are corps, they are just better at it.

And making money gives them more rights than you???....gives them a louder voice....and you are OK with it? That's really fucking pathetic!

I want my voice heard by my "representative", not drowned out by some business interest with deep pockets more than it already is.

Go ahead, Sleeve.....lay on down. Have a nice snooze. Give up your voice. They love it when you do that. Maybe someday when you get trampled on enough you'll wake up.


CorvallisBMW: Well put, sir.

[mrsleeve]

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THEN VOTE, NEVER VOTE FOR A INCUMBENT THEN. I will vote for the person that most represents me on the issues and has the ACTIONS to back it up (ie.. voting history) Thats HOW WE MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD, IT HAS NOTHING DO WITH HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAVE OR CONTRIBUTE. Dont like what they are up too, the kick them the fuck out and get a new guy, look no further than MASS.

I am all for term limits on congress though



Holmes your a tool and a moron to boot. I can chose to have nothing to do with a company or corp I dont like, not buy their products patronize that establishments. Corps only have power over me if I let them by spending my money with them, I can stop that at any point I wish.

The Govt I have no choice but to deal with, and GIVE MY MONEY too under penalty of law. YES ALL GOVT is EVIL, and will seek to grow and gain more power over those it serves and those that occupy its offices. The fall of the Romans is a prime example of this.

Our rights and freedoms dont come from the govt they are inherent with the life it self. Oh BTW we dont live in a Democracy man I know thats what you have been told all your life but thats not the case, WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC

Please read my Sig Lines more often. Let me know when you understand them and I will change to a couple of new ones. I will help you lean if you so wish to. Just ask

But according to you the government is evil? When are you going to realize that they are the same fucking thing?! They have the same level of power and influence over your life as the government. The only difference is that you aren't allowed to vote for the leaders. Yay democracy!

[LBJefferies]

Holmes your a tool and a moron to boot. I can chose to have nothing to do with a company or corp I dont like, not buy their products patronize that establishments. Corps only have power over me if I let them by spending my money with them, I can stop that at any point I wish.

The Govt I have no choice but to deal with, and GIVE MY MONEY too under penalty of law. YES ALL GOVT is EVIL, and will seek to grow and gain more power over those it serves and those that occupy its offices. The fall of the Romans is a prime example of this.

Our rights and freedoms dont come from the govt they are inherent with the life it self. Oh BTW we dont live in a Democracy man I know thats what you have been told all your life but thats not the case, WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC

Please read my Sig Lines more often. Let me know when you understand them and I will change to a couple of new ones. I will help you lean if you so wish to. Just ask

Sure you can choose to not give your money to business, but you wouldn't have a car or gas for it, you wouldn't have a computer to post on r3v or a cell phone to talk to your fuck buddy blunt. The list goes on.

And as far as your example goes, I can choose to not work. That would be comparable.

[mrsleeve]

Sure you can choose to not give your money to business, but you wouldn't have a car or gas for it, you wouldn't have a computer to post on r3v or a cell phone to talk to your fuck buddy blunt. The list goes on.

Places piss me off all the time and I vote with dollars, and not use them. I hate walmart and never go there, I dont buy much Carhartt stuff anymore (less its still made here), I only buy Filson stuff that is still made is Seattle, Our DD's are Big 3, and I wont be buying anymore new till the Govt GTF out, I dont buy gas/fuel from citgo because I dont like Hugo Or Velro because I dont like how they run their business. You can vote with dollars end of story. Yes I have to deal with corps I dont like for services but really much of the issues with that are thanks the feds anyway in Taxes, use fees, sur charges and all kinds of other shit the feds have imposed on these corps to extort more money outta the masses. Just like this Health Care Debockel

And as far as your example goes, I can choose to not work. That would be comparable.

Yup then you get to live off the wealth of others that was taken from them by force. Yeah way to go entitlements. Your counter point makes no sense here, if you make that little you pay no taxes anyway, but if you want to make something of your self that all out the window.

[CorvallisBMW]

Thats HOW WE MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD, IT HAS NOTHING DO WITH HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAVE OR CONTRIBUTE.

Really? Think about this: How do you get ads on tv? and on the radio? and in papers? Money, it's simple. Now if one side has more money than the other, they're going to buy more ads, run a bigger campaign, and sway the vote in their favor. It's not rocket science.

Believe it or not, you CAN influence people. And you do it with money. Therefor a corporation or union with $10 million to spend has more influence on the vote and you or I with our $1000. We can vote for whoever we want based on our morals or ideals, but we will be drowned out a thousand fold by the hundreds of TV ads trying to swing voters the other direction.

If you don't think money plays any role on politics, I am truly sorry for you. It's got to be tough going through life as a complete retard.

Our DD's are Big 3, and I wont be buying anymore new till the Govt GTF out,

You're like Captain America's retarded little brother. That F-series truck you own? Hecho en Mexico my flag-waving friend. And the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra? They come from Canada eh.

Want to buy something American? Nissans are built in Alabama, as are Hyundais. BMWs are built in SC, Subarus in Illinois and Toyotas in CA.

So next time you're ready to put your money where your mouth is, do some research.

[Massive Lee]

"The word "democracy" (Greek: δημοκρατια) combines the elements demos (δημος, which means "people") and kratos (κρατος, which means "force" or "power")."

Ah. Ah. Ah. You guys are doomed. The people have lost its power in favour of the corporations. More money. More voicing with senators and parties. Can't wait to see a Coca-Cola flag on the White House.

[stegosaurus]

Awesome. So now the unions and corporations have free speech, but I don't. That's totally what the 1st amendment is about.

The rules that were struck down prevented huge special interests from giving boatloads of money and drowning out the 'free speech' of you and me. But now that they're free to give as much as they want to whomever they want, the average American citizen has no voice. I could sell everything I own and donate every penny in my account to my favorite candidate, and some big Fortune 500 company could donate 0.000001% of their earnings to the other guy, and my 'free speech' wouldn't count for shit. I'd be outspent a million to one, and guess who's voice would be a million times louder.

What is good about taking away free speech from the American citizens and giving it to the American Unions and Corporations? What about MY right to free speech? Money talks. If they give $100 Million, and I give $100, my free speech is muzzled. Taken away. Stricken. Where is the First Amendment for me and you? Do we get to have our say?

Free speech is a right that everyone is guaranteed, not just those with money. I'd love to see a $1000 cap for everyone; private, public, corporate, union or whatever. That way everyone has their right to free speech and can give to whomever they want, but no one gets more free speech than anyone else.

You make it sound like a corporation has the power to choose elected officials.

The thing I can't wrap my head around is the twisted view of altruism in this country. If a business funds an aid expedition to Haiti to help people impacted by a natural disaster, it's the right thing to do; but, if a business funds a campaign it's right wing agenda pushing and drowing out the free speech of American citizens. These two situations are basically identical and yet the mass perception couldn't be more different. WTF?

The thing that's missing here is a spine. Yes, a spine. Voters need the balls to form an EDUCATED opinion about a candidate from information that they have come across themselves. If voters are so weak that they can't make up their minds on their own, and have to turn to campaign advertisements to do it for them, then there are bigger things to worry about than a lift on campaign spending caps. FFS Obama v. McCain seemed more like a Coke v. Pepsi race than a presidential election.

Funding is funding, and corporations have the money to throw around so that's who people turn to when they need backing. Corporations don't have the power to tell you who to vote for, nobody does, which is why you have the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want. So if you really believe in the freedoms you observe as a citizen of this country then you shouldn't care how much is spent on an election, you should be able to draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself who to vote for.

Problem is too many people are too lazy to do that, those Obama t-shirts really sent them over the top.

[mrsleeve]

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Well said "future petrochemicals" much more refined than mine


Corvalis.

Ok, you see this is the issue, the importance and responsibility of Voting is no longer stressed. You see a informed voter pays no attention to whats on the adds or in the media, they will make their choice based on their own research.

Why is this, again thank the progressives for dummbing down the public school system.

Oh by the way would it surprise you that I am proud to be a Union member?????

*now stirring pot*

[CorvallisBMW]

If a business funds an aid expedition to Haiti to help people impacted by a natural disaster .... and if a business funds a campaign with a right wing agenda pushing and drowning out the free speech of American citizens ... these two situations are basically identical

Wait, what? Did you come up with that while Sleeve was pounding on your brain through the back of your mouth with his cock?

[stegosaurus]

Wait, what? Did you come up with that while Sleeve was pounding on your brain through the back of your mouth with his cock?

I didn't come up with that, what I said was "if a business funds a campaign it's right wing agenda pushing and drowing out the free speech of American citizens", meaning; people's opinion of the matter is such that the corporation is seen as "pushing a right wing agenda, and drowning out the free speech of the rest of us".

What you quoted was not something I said, so I'm not sure what you're going for.

If you're just trying to say I've got a thing for sleeve, it's impossible, I'm prehistoric.

[CorvallisBMW]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well said "future petrochemicals" much more refined than mine


Corvalis.

Ok, you see this is the issue, the importance and responsibility of Voting is no longer stressed. You see a informed voter pays no attention to whats on the adds or in the media, they will make their choice based on their own research.

Why is this, again thank the progressives for dummbing down the public school system.

Oh by the way would it surprise you that I am proud to be a Union member?????

*now stirring pot*

I completely agree that an educated voting public is important (though it has nothing to do with the public school system. I have many good friends who spent their entire educations at private schools and ended up just as gullible as everyone else)

But the public, nay people by nature, will always be susceptible to influence. Not amount of education can change that.

Again, are you saying money doesn't talk? That money plays no part in American politics? According to what you've said, money doesn't mean shit and the only thing that actually counts in politics is the honest, hard-thought votes of the public. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT?

Obvi.

way to dodge the question...

In fact, your little quote is so good I may use it as my sig so that everyone can see just how dumb you are :rofl:

[Hallen]

Y'all are missing the point entirely, and that's what congress and the political parties want.

It's really simple. The only reason corporations want to buy congressmen and presidents is because these idiots, who are supposed to serve the constitution, us, and this country, are really just power brokers who constantly mess with things they shouldn't. Since they do that, it forces all these players to play the game, buy power, to insure they don't get fucked with.

Why do you think "regulatory" is such a big deal with our government? It isn't because they are trying to do what is right or trying to follow the constitution, they do it because it is graft. It's payback to the people who put them in power. It doesn't matter if it is a giant Union, corporation, environmental group, minority group, or a special interest group, they all get their payback via stupid laws and stupid regulations. These things that they do are the very reason we are in a recession now. These things are the exact cause of every single economic bubble ever created in this country.

Making something illegal because it threatens property rights (is stealing, murder, etc), is fine. That's what a government is there to do. But making sweeping regulatory changes, eg SoX, and the current slew of regulations they are talking about for the financial industry, only cause the twisted currents to bend in different directions instead of flowing smoothly.

Do you know who wrote SoX? The accounting industry wrote the rules and they were the only ones to benefit from it. There's nobody in congress smart enough to figure out how to run a T account so they have to bring in experts. That's exactly what the accounting associations paid to do. If you are going to get regulated, its best if you write your own rules. That's what all these players do.

Also, this isn't limited to unions and corporations, not one little bit. That's why this SC ruling is correct. Environmental and minority groups weren't limited the way corporations were. Now its at least a bit more level of a field again.

It isn't right, but it isn't because of the people who buy the votes. It isn't right because of the people who take the money and allow themselves to be bought. It's that simple. If you want it to be fair, then the only money allowed to be used for any campaign should come from equal accounts that come from tax dollars only. That's it. Private money, even your own, should be barred. But still, the problem is with our government, not anybody else.

[stegosaurus]

way to dodge the question...

In fact, your little quote is so good I may use it as my sig so that everyone can see just how dumb you are :rofl:

And such a serious question at that. Reread post #40 if you feel so inclined. I could post it again if you want it for your sig, I don't really care, I'm history anyway.

[z31maniac]

Y'all are missing the point entirely, and that's what congress and the political parties want.

It's really simple. The only reason corporations want to buy congressmen and presidents is because these idiots, who are supposed to serve the constitution, us, and this country, are really just power brokers who constantly mess with things they shouldn't. Since they do that, it forces all these players to play the game, buy power, to insure they don't get fucked with.

Why do you think "regulatory" is such a big deal with our government? It isn't because they are trying to do what is right or trying to follow the constitution, they do it because it is graft. It's payback to the people who put them in power. It doesn't matter if it is a giant Union, corporation, environmental group, minority group, or a special interest group, they all get their payback via stupid laws and stupid regulations. These things that they do are the very reason we are in a recession now. These things are the exact cause of every single economic bubble ever created in this country.

Making something illegal because it threatens property rights (is stealing, murder, etc), is fine. That's what a government is there to do. But making sweeping regulatory changes, eg SoX, and the current slew of regulations they are talking about for the financial industry, only cause the twisted currents to bend in different directions instead of flowing smoothly.

Do you know who wrote SoX? The accounting industry wrote the rules and they were the only ones to benefit from it. There's nobody in congress smart enough to figure out how to run a T account so they have to bring in experts. That's exactly what the accounting associations paid to do. If you are going to get regulated, its best if you write your own rules. That's what all these players do.

Also, this isn't limited to unions and corporations, not one little bit. That's why this SC ruling is correct. Environmental and minority groups weren't limited the way corporations were. Now its at least a bit more level of a field again.

It isn't right, but it isn't because of the people who buy the votes. It isn't right because of the people who take the money and allow themselves to be bought. It's that simple. If you want it to be fair, then the only money allowed to be used for any campaign should come from equal accounts that come from tax dollars only. That's it. Private money, even your own, should be barred. But still, the problem is with our government, not anybody else.

I'm glad someone else can see through the blind right-wing patriotism.

All the K Street prostitutes need to be thrown out as well.

[Massive Lee]

Making something illegal because it threatens property rights (is stealing, murder, etc), is fine. That's what a government is there to do.

But what if big corporations, thanks to their huge funding power, now had the ability to make something that was illegal, legal? Like dumping nuclear wastes in your backyard? Or reducing your new car warranty to 6 months? All in the sake of corporate profits? That's far from murderers and thieves, but it is what defines your quality of life.