SHOCK: American terrorist flies plane into IRS building in Texas capitol.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Close.......................... BUSH DID IT!!!!!

[SamE30e]

I flew down to San Diego with my kids last week and drove to Phoenix in the rental car. I had to stop at a Border Patrol checkpoint on I-8 and the guy asked me where I was going "none of your business".

He asked me where I was coming from.. "none of your business".

Are those your children? "Do they look like it?".

I got pulled over for further questioning (interogation) and they even started to question (interogate) my kids.

This latest incident will surely make domestic checkpoints more prevelent.

Now you're just causing shit. They're doing their job, it's not like they're going to follow you or ruin it for you. Answer the simple questions and be on your way. If someone did get through and do something because they let them through not to be a bother, you would blame them.

[Farbin Kaiber]

But seriously, why do you have to tell them anything?

[Massive Lee]

But seriously, why do you have to tell them anything?

None of your business... ;-)

Seriously, Sam, a state where police takes the right to interrogate people with no valid suspicion of wrong doing is called a police state. In a free country, the police must arrest you and charge you of a crime to have the right to interrogate you. Simple. If they don't charge you, then they have absolutely no right to detain you or expect answers... ;-)

[Farbin Kaiber]

None of your business... ;-)

Seriously, Sam, a state where police takes the right to interrogate people with no valid suspicion of wrong doing is called a police state. In a free country, the police must arrest you and charge you of a crime to have the right to interrogate you. Simple. If they don't charge you, then they have absolutely no right to detain you or expect answers... ;-)

Best post you have ever made, minus the winks.

[CorvallisBMW]

So we should let all the illegals just drive around, let all the coyotes transport people and drugs and whatever they want, let the child abductors and rapists roll around freely, let terrorists putter around in their vans packed with bombs... Just because you guys don't want checkpoints? Yeah, that makes sense.

If the only way to ask a question is to arrest someone, no one would ever get caught for anything because you could never catch them until after they did it. Are you going to ask the 9/11 highjackers 'where are you going?' on 9/12, after you've accused them of a crime?

Checkpoints are there to catch illegals, drugs, human trafficking, etc. If you don't have anything to hide, what the fuck is your problem? Would you prefer we just let them all go and do nothing?

[hoveringuy]

So we should let all the illegals just drive around, let all the coyotes transport people and drugs and whatever they want, let the child abductors and rapists roll around freely, let terrorists putter around in their vans packed with bombs... Just because you guys don't want checkpoints? Yeah, that makes sense.

If the only way to ask a question is to arrest someone, no one would ever get caught for anything because you could never catch them until after they did it. Are you going to ask the 9/11 highjackers 'where are you going?' on 9/12, after you've accused them of a crime?

Checkpoints are there to catch illegals, drugs, human trafficking, etc. If you don't have anything to hide, what the fuck is your problem? Would you prefer we just let them all go and do nothing?

You're right. Let me tap your cell phone and monitor your conversations, just to make sure you're not doing anything illegal. You have nothing to hide, right? What's would be the problem with that?

I'll go ahead and read all your e-mails, too. Remember, I'm doing it to help you.. may catch some criminals like that.

Want to go for a drive? Register your destination ahead of time so I can monitor your GPS position and make sure you don't wander off your approved route.

The point is, where do you stop the erosion of rights and privacy for collective security?

[mrsleeve]

So we should let all the illegals just drive around, let all the coyotes transport people and drugs and whatever they want, let the child abductors and rapists roll around freely, let terrorists putter around in their vans packed with bombs... Just because you guys don't want checkpoints? Yeah, that makes sense.

If the only way to ask a question is to arrest someone, no one would ever get caught for anything because you could never catch them until after they did it. Are you going to ask the 9/11 highjackers 'where are you going?' on 9/12, after you've accused them of a crime?

Checkpoints are there to catch illegals, drugs, human trafficking, etc. If you don't have anything to hide, what the fuck is your problem? Would you prefer we just let them all go and do nothing?

Not touching this with a 10 foot pole.

thats what and why our Border security needs to be much much better and why we need a fucking fence that has a good patrol on it. Rather than a phone every so often to call for help if needed, directions and pamphlets on where to get water and shit.

These Check points are total BS

[Pinepig]

do churches really make that much money from contributions?

Next time I'm in the Bay Area I'll ask my wifes uncle Dick.

http://www.jubilee.org/index.html

[CorvallisBMW]

You're right. Let me tap your cell phone and monitor your conversations, just to make sure you're not doing anything illegal. You have nothing to hide, right? What's would be the problem with that?

I'll go ahead and read all your e-mails, too. Remember, I'm doing it to help you.. may catch some criminals like that.

Want to go for a drive? Register your destination ahead of time so I can monitor your GPS position and make sure you don't wander off your approved route.

The point is, where do you stop the erosion of rights and privacy for collective security?

Sorry but those are completely different scenarios.

A policeman has every right to ask you, at a checkpoint, where you are going. He/she does not have the right to tap your phone or read your emails without a warrant. It's pretty cut and dry: The constitution gives you the right against unreasonable search and seizure, it doesn't give you the right to be a dick to a cop and give him shit for doing his job.

Actively tracking movement, communication, internet activity, etc are all much different than a policeman asking "Where are you going?"

If a child were abducted by a known sex offender and the police knew he was headed in a certain direction but didn't know in what vehicle, would you not want them to set up a checkpoint to catch him? Or would you rather he rapes and murders the kid because you've got a conspiracy theory?

From what your saying I gather you believe we shouldn't have any airport security either, it's just another checkpoint. Lets just let whoever the heck wants on to a plane with a bomb or gun or whatever, because airport security in an infringement on your right to privacy.

I understand what you're saying about erosion of privacy, believe me. But think about the consequences of what you're saying also.

[joshh]

OMG.....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The camcorder will never leave....NEVAR!!!!!

[mrsleeve]

Sorry but those are completely different scenarios.

A policeman has every right to ask you, at a checkpoint, where you are going. He/she does not have the right to tap your phone or read your emails without a warrant. It's pretty cut and dry: The constitution gives you the right against unreasonable search and seizure, it doesn't give you the right to be a dick to a cop and give him shit for doing his job.

NO NO they dont, They have to have probable cause to detain you and question you about anything, then you have the right to refuse till, they have a warrant to do so, please read the 4th amendment again and get back to me. He has no right to restrict or question your lawful freedom of movement, Please try again.

Actively tracking movement, communication, internet activity, etc are all much different than a policeman asking "Where are you going?"

UMMMMM yeah your right, but you have the right to say fuck off none of you business, still need probable case or a warrant to force this info from you and even then you still have the right to refuse.

If a child were abducted by a known sex offender and the police knew he was headed in a certain direction but didn't know in what vehicle, would you not want them to set up a checkpoint to catch him? Or would you rather he rapes and murders the kid because you've got a conspiracy theory?

well this is interesting scenario you have here, well lets humor you and say they do set up a check point. If hes a "known offender" they fucking know what he looks like if its a white guy that is 6'5" and 285, are you gonna stop and question the little blond girl, or the black dude or the me the skinny white guy that dose not fit the description?????? See no questions needed.

From what your saying I gather you believe we shouldn't have any airport security either, it's just another checkpoint. Lets just let whoever the heck wants on to a plane with a bomb or gun or whatever, because airport security in an infringement on your right to privacy.

NOPE Airport security and 4th amendment rights dont come into play at all. Flying is a privilege its not a right, to gain access to the privilege of flying you willingly give up certain rights in the name of security. If you dont like the security at the airport, simple dont fucking fly, drive, bus, train or even walk your happy ass where you want to go. Your not being denied freedom of movement and travel (a right) just a method of getting there (a Privilege).

I understand what you're saying about erosion of privacy, believe me. But think about the consequences of what you're saying also.

Then why is all this drivel comming outta your head then????

I Have thought about the consequences and they are the byproduct of FREEDOM. Being a free man to do as I see fit, when I chose to and why I chose to is nothing to take for granted, or taken lightly. If so then it will not be long till freedom is lost to us all.

Freedom isnt free at all, bad things happen and that is just part of the price of being free!!!! you would do well to not forget that.


So again if you want to live where no one ever gets hurt or has to endure anything thats unfair, shut your pie hole and pack your shit and move to a nanny state, I suggest France.

[CorvallisBMW]

NOPE Airport security and 4th amendment rights dont come into play at all. Flying is a privilege its not a right, to gain access to the privilege of flying you willingly give up certain rights in the name of security.

Kind of like driving?

You have no right to drive, therefor put up with the checkpoints. Same as the airport.

NO NO they dont, They have to have probable cause to detain you and question you about anything, then you have the right to refuse till, they have a warrant to do so, please read the 4th amendment again and get back to me. He has no right to restrict or question your lawful freedom of movement, Please try again.

He has every right to ask you a question. You do not have a constitutional right to avoid questions and be a dick. If the world worked the way you say it does, they couldn't even do a traffic stop. So maybe you're the one who wants to try again.

UMMMMM yeah your right, but you have the right to say fuck off none of you business, still need probable case or a warrant to force this info from you and even then you still have the right to refuse.

And if you tell them to fuck off and refuse to answer questions they know you have something to hide and will take to to jail. See how that works? I'd rather say "I'm driving to phoenix with me kids" than spend a night in jail because I have a penis size issue and feel the need to beat my chest in front of a cop.

well this is interesting scenario you have here, well lets humor you and say they do set up a check point. If hes a "known offender" they fucking know what he looks like if its a white guy that is 6'5" and 285, are you gonna stop and question the little blond girl, or the black dude or the me the skinny white guy that dose not fit the description?????? See no questions needed.

So we shouldn't ask questions when looking for criminals? Everything should be based purely on face recognition? What if they didn't know what the person looked like? What if he slipped through and did murder that kid because no one bothered to ask a fucking question, are you OK with that kid being dead, just so you can bath in your illusion?

[SamE30e]

None of your business... ;-)

Seriously, Sam, a state where police takes the right to interrogate people with no valid suspicion of wrong doing is called a police state. In a free country, the police must arrest you and charge you of a crime to have the right to interrogate you. Simple. If they don't charge you, then they have absolutely no right to detain you or expect answers... ;-)

You're raising a suspicion by being a fucking prick. They're trying to protect you from criminals, illegal aliens, and terrorist attacks and people reply to the question "Where are you heading?" with "None of your business" or worse. They're not interrogating you when they ask you that question, you get interrogated when you answer it like a smart ass and make their job protecting YOU difficult, and they believe that you could be up to something illegal.

[mrsleeve]

Kind of like driving?

You have no right to drive, therefor put up with the checkpoints. Same as the airport.

Put the provision in as a contingency to my DL and then you have a case, till that happens NOPE. Your car is your private property falls to the 4th, less there is probable cause or a warrant.

He has every right to ask you a question. You do not have a constitutional right to avoid questions and be a dick. If the world worked the way you say it does, they couldn't even do a traffic stop. So maybe you're the one who wants to try again.

Sure I suppose he can, but you have EVERY RIGHT TO DECLINE TO ANSWER. If you are stupid enough to willingly talk to and give information to a cop, that is your prerogative and your own foolishness, This would be the 5th amendment and the Miranda Rights when you are arrested. NEVER EVER TALK TO A COP EVER EVER. Traffic stop sure they can do that, speeding = breaking the law = probable cause, broke plate lights, again car with non working safety equipment = probable cause. Still can not arbitrarily pull you over just for the fuck of it to ask you a question. All though it happens all the time they just say you did this or that or looked suspicious to give the the probable cause

And if you tell them to fuck off and refuse to answer questions they know you have something to hide and will take to to jail. See how that works? I'd rather say "I'm driving to phoenix with me kids" than spend a night in jail because I have a penis size issue and feel the need to beat my chest in front of a cop.

this is for same30e too for the post above

No it dose not mean you have something to hide you fucking dolt. LEO's can not use your refusal to answer questions to ascertain or assume any kind of wrong doing or probable cause. It makes their job more difficult because its supposed to be that way!!! Innocent till proven guilty remember that one????? In your world its just the reverse you have to prove your innocent to be allowed to pass, NOT HOW IT WORKS.

So we shouldn't ask questions when looking for criminals? Everything should be based purely on face recognition? What if they didn't know what the person looked like? What if he slipped through and did murder that kid because no one bothered to ask a fucking question, are you OK with that kid being dead, just so you can bath in your illusion?

You said KNOWN Offender, so I played your game by the rules YOU SET,

No questions are just fine with probable cause or if you are willing to answer them so be it. But like I have said before I dont have to prove I am innocent in these things, WE are assumed so, till such time we have been proven guilty.