Obama - WTF is he on?

[StereoInstaller1]

I still have "Hope" and I want positive change (because change is what I keep in a jar in my fucking bedroom) but a fucking t shirt ain't gonna do either.

Of course, neither is the hardcore right wingers gonna get anywhere with the non stop rhetoric of "freedom" and "small government" and whatever words they use, too.

The simple fact is ALL Americans have got to stop living in a greedy world, mortgaging our lives to the goddamn credit companies, thinking that a families $60K annual income means we get to live in a 3,000 sq ft home with 2 SUVs and 4 JetSkis and a giant TV in every room.

GIMME MORE NOW is what is killing us. That, and so many idiots paying $4 for a fucking cup of coffee!

As long as the "lefties" and the "righties" continue to fight each other, we aren't gonna fight FOR each other. Nothing will improve until we stop the greed.

This is why I don't vote: this is why I know all of this crap will do nothing, ever. All a waste of human effort. All "joining a team" you will never ever get the benefits of either side "winning", everyone being nothing but a pawn to keep ALL of them in their battle for power.

[Paul G]

I don't like many of Obama's policies, but I will give him one thing. Most politicians, once they enter office, forget all the promises they made. Obama's big thing, while running, was getting nationalized healthcare, and he's been fighting for it since day one. At least he has broken that particular mold.

[Aptyp]

Wow, Obama seems unpolished in that attempt to sway masses... Sound like debates I have with my buddies after emptying a 24-pack.

[Aptyp]

also... 36 senate seats are up for election this year. If you haven't seen Harry Reed next to Obama and Polosi in the last few weeks, it's because he's one of the senators with his seat on the line.

[Rustyduktape]

kinda reminded me of George Bush, just the way he talks. and they both pronounce America funny.

[Rustyduktape]

I still have "Hope" and I want positive change (because change is what I keep in a jar in my fucking bedroom) but a fucking t shirt ain't gonna do either.

Of course, neither is the hardcore right wingers gonna get anywhere with the non stop rhetoric of "freedom" and "small government" and whatever words they use, too.

The simple fact is ALL Americans have got to stop living in a greedy world, mortgaging our lives to the goddamn credit companies, thinking that a families $60K annual income means we get to live in a 3,000 sq ft home with 2 SUVs and 4 JetSkis and a giant TV in every room.

GIMME MORE NOW is what is killing us. That, and so many idiots paying $4 for a fucking cup of coffee!

As long as the "lefties" and the "righties" continue to fight each other, we aren't gonna fight FOR each other. Nothing will improve until we stop the greed.

This is why I don't vote: this is why I know all of this crap will do nothing, ever. All a waste of human effort. All "joining a team" you will never ever get the benefits of either side "winning", everyone being nothing but a pawn to keep ALL of them in their battle for power.

quoted for fucking truth.

[KenC]

I am probably more confused than anyone on this bill. I have pretty decent medical and it works well. And I have always thought you work for what you get, but now countries with socialized medicine are kicking our butts when it comes to economics... One side says that free markets will make us more competitive in the world markets while the other side says that the free market medical is making us less competitive in the world... which is it? As for Reagon, I voted for him... then found out I was on the bottom of the trickle down chain....

I think the only way this stuff is going to get fixed is to make all the senators and representatives go on the same plan as you and I....

Free-market principles (which I'm not sure have ever existed), are socially beneficial when used in most industries. However, as one who has been immersed in the healthcare industry for years, I'm not convinced it's universally applicable to the healthcare realm. Human's are too unpredictable (biochemically & socially); and when you have one on both sides of the equation, things start to get hazy.
You can't turn a hospital into an assembly line for care. Treatments that work for some, don't necessarily have the same outcomes on another. It's like going to a friends house to work on his e30 with your full metric tool kit, only to realize that his entire car is in whitworth sizing once you popped the hood. Why did you "waste" time/energy/$ bringing the metric tools?
Rational decisions by humans aren't something that you can take for granted either, especially when it comes to their medical care. When you're ill in a hospital, you're not going to be "shopping around" for which phlebotomist will draw your blood the cheapest, and which lab will run tests the cheapest.
People aren't rational either when it comes to planning for end-of-life care either. A HUGE amount of medical costs are for caring for those in their final years, often with interventions that individuals don't want. I don't know if any of you have ever seen CPR performed on a frail woman in her mid-90s, but it's not a pretty thing. Currently less than 1/3 of those over 80 have any sort of advanced directive. To further argue against rationality, Ive personally witnessed patients explicitly express their desire to be a DNR, yet refuse to sign the form. So much money could be saved if more individuals would plan for thier final years. In the current bill, there is specific reimbursement for physicians to discuss this with patients and assist them, but Glenn Beck scares the shit out of people and refer's to it as a "death panel."
Self-referral to specialists by ignorant patients is another huge waste of money, but that's a "freedom" most have, I guess.
I'm not really sure where I was going with this, but I guess I'm just trying to paint a picture of how unpredictable medicine is, and thus difficult to place cookie-cutter philosophies on.
Furthermore, more than 50% of physicians in the US either practice alone or with one partner. Studies have shown again and again that this leads to uncoordinated lower-quality care.

[reelop19]

Good fucking idea to not vote. That will solve all our problems. If somebody wants to motgage their future thats up to them and not up to you to tell them what to do. It is however not the governments responsibilty to mortgage all of our futures. Do you see the difference? So while you do nothing the poor, worthless, and uncontributing factions of society get they're votes bought by Democrats who want to keep they're jobs and viola us in the middle and upper class, who do contribute, get to contribute more and now I don't have more money for my god damn E30!

[StereoInstaller1]

Good fucking idea to not vote. That will solve all our problems. If somebody wants to motgage their future thats up to them and not up to you to tell them what to do. It is however not the governments responsibilty to mortgage all of our futures. Do you see the difference? So while you do nothing the poor, worthless, and uncontributing factions of society get they're votes bought by Democrats who want to keep they're jobs and viola us in the middle and upper class, who do contribute, get to contribute more and now I don't have more money for my god damn E30!

You kinda lack reading comprehension, don't ya?

[dirtysix]

I still have "Hope" and I want positive change (because change is what I keep in a jar in my fucking bedroom) but a fucking t shirt ain't gonna do either.

Of course, neither is the hardcore right wingers gonna get anywhere with the non stop rhetoric of "freedom" and "small government" and whatever words they use, too.

The simple fact is ALL Americans have got to stop living in a greedy world, mortgaging our lives to the goddamn credit companies, thinking that a families $60K annual income means we get to live in a 3,000 sq ft home with 2 SUVs and 4 JetSkis and a giant TV in every room.

GIMME MORE NOW is what is killing us. That, and so many idiots paying $4 for a fucking cup of coffee!

As long as the "lefties" and the "righties" continue to fight each other, we aren't gonna fight FOR each other. Nothing will improve until we stop the greed.

This is why I don't vote: this is why I know all of this crap will do nothing, ever. All a waste of human effort. All "joining a team" you will never ever get the benefits of either side "winning", everyone being nothing but a pawn to keep ALL of them in their battle for power.

Obviously spoken by someone who has seen this merry-go-round occur more than once.

And yes politics are the same in any democracy. Endless pandering to the great unwashed.

[LBJefferies]

This looks more unhinged to me http://pubrecord.org/multimedia/7239...artiers-admit/

[joshh]

As an American you have the right to not vote...and still bitch. We had two absolutely horrible candidates and some retards out there think you should still vote. The point is to vote someone YOU WANT in not the person that represents your party.


And Obama has not even come close to breaking the mold of promises told and not held. Health care is yet to pass and it wont come out the other side a good thing. It's one thing he MIGHT get down and it's being done very very poorly.

[ck_taft325is]

We get that there are dumb tea-partiers out there. That's a fact. And? I don't understand why Democrats keep parading them around instead of attempting to work on an actual health care reform that works.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nearly everyone here wants health care reform. Duh. We just don't want a bad plan based on how the Dem's "feel". Take out all the "socialism", "Government take over", etc, etc... and focus on working a plan out that will work. Perhaps actually have both sides more involved. Yes, the Republicans are trying to vote this down. Because it's being pushed, shoved and forced on America.

Yes, there are stupid Republicans. Yes, there are many a stupid conservative.

But there's plenty on the Democratic side as well. The fact that Democrats have gone about their overt power plays in the fashion they have just points more and more to that. The fact that they are actively pursueing shmear campaigns is further evidence.

I've yet to hear a Democrat in office say, "Let's put our differences aside and make a plan to solve some serious issues in America." - instead we get a lot of Democratic politicians saying stuff like, "Why can't the republicans stop being so "no" oriented and just say yes!".

[bimma360]

I still have "Hope" and I want positive change (because change is what I keep in a jar in my fucking bedroom) but a fucking t shirt ain't gonna do either.

Of course, neither is the hardcore right wingers gonna get anywhere with the non stop rhetoric of "freedom" and "small government" and whatever words they use, too.

The simple fact is ALL Americans have got to stop living in a greedy world, mortgaging our lives to the goddamn credit companies, thinking that a families $60K annual income means we get to live in a 3,000 sq ft home with 2 SUVs and 4 JetSkis and a giant TV in every room.

GIMME MORE NOW is what is killing us. That, and so many idiots paying $4 for a fucking cup of coffee!

As long as the "lefties" and the "righties" continue to fight each other, we aren't gonna fight FOR each other. Nothing will improve until we stop the greed.

This is why I don't vote: this is why I know all of this crap will do nothing, ever. All a waste of human effort. All "joining a team" you will never ever get the benefits of either side "winning", everyone being nothing but a pawn to keep ALL of them in their battle for power.

As I tend to try and avoid any talk of politics on the forum, I'd like to chime in and say that I totally agree with you. More importantly, I cant help but feel like nothing can ever get done in this government b/c every politician is too worried about reelection. I'm sick of the republicans trying to keep the democrats from getting anything done, and the democrats doing the same thing to the republicans. I'm tired of politicians making their decisions based on what will get them reelected or how it will make their party look, and I am tired of them making so much damn money as a result of them being public servants. Our founding fathers are turning in their graves right now.

The only thing that will make things better isn't just stopping our greed (although that is a biggy), it's every citizen of this country saying no more. No more two party system, no more millionaire senators, and no more BS. To work in our top government positions, should mean no ability to ever become a millionaire. They should be working for us and NOT them.

Alright i'll just stop ranting.

Dave

[KenC]

We get that there are dumb tea-partiers out there. That's a fact. And? I don't understand why Democrats keep parading them around instead of attempting to work on an actual health care reform that works.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nearly everyone here wants health care reform. Duh. We just don't want a bad plan based on how the Dem's "feel". Take out all the "socialism", "Government take over", etc, etc... and focus on working a plan out that will work. Perhaps actually have both sides more involved. Yes, the Republicans are trying to vote this down. Because it's being pushed, shoved and forced on America.

Yes, there are stupid Republicans. Yes, there are many a stupid conservative.

But there's plenty on the Democratic side as well. The fact that Democrats have gone about their overt power plays in the fashion they have just points more and more to that. The fact that they are actively pursueing shmear campaigns is further evidence.

I've yet to hear a Democrat in office say, "Let's put our differences aside and make a plan to solve some serious issues in America." - instead we get a lot of Democratic politicians saying stuff like, "Why can't the republicans stop being so "no" oriented and just say yes!".

You keep spouting talking point bullets over and over. It's humerous/sad/annoying at the same time.

How is it a "government take-over?"


The Ds and Rs are never going to find middle ground because their ultimate goal isn't the same. The Republicans are solely concerned with lowering costs of medical care. The Ds are concerned with it as well, but their ultimate goal is to cover every citizen.

I'm in favor of the current bill, however, I am fully in favor of massive tort reform. That being said, it's not going to drastically reduce costs nationwide. The CBO has predicted it will save ~$5.4b/yr over the next ten years... Sounds like a lot until you factor in the $3.2trillion we spent in 2009 alone.
Furthermore, I am in favor of being able to buy insurance accros state lines IFF ("if and only if" for you math nerds), there are minimum standards of coverage established. Ask you physician how much time he or she spends per week justifying treatments to insurance companies.