The job market is really pissing me off.

[bimmer_E30]

hmmm what can i say? because of this economy i am driving a civic now.

[ck_taft325is]

I don't think someone's contribution to society is reflected solely by their income. Take K-12 teachers who are not well paid but greatly important. Their influence is immeasurable, but because there's a supply and demand at hand and many people can do it (TFA, etc.) they cannot bring in that much. If the job isn't that fun, then there is a premium to encourage a healthy supply of labor. A unique desire to work in a field few others aim for could mean a great reward doing something you enjoy. But popular careers can weigh down the income because of people wanting to do it, or more are capable of doing it. That doesn't mean the contribution is less valuable to society because more people enjoy the work they do.

A bit long winded there, but I agree! ;)

With my company work is slow because work is slow. Construction always has seasons. Always has. Always will, probably. Having been an Electrician apprentice for almost two years and watching the work ebb off, it is in large part due to the economy. Just the way it is. Their (Electrician company I worked for) clients of 20+ years started bid shopping. Not because we were high priced or gouging them, just because they were told to by their bosses and their bosses, bosses.

As it stands, I started a company. I know taxes are too high. It's a fact and reality. They are going higher. This is a direct result of Government taking what's not theirs. I'll be fine, but I'm having to pass a lot (I mean, A LOT) of costs onto clients. Hell, 3 out of 5 people don't realize that there's sales tax on the work I do and they have to pay it. I've lost 3 bids in the past month because they thought it was a "bogus" charge. It's not cheap and the more work (bigger the job) the more that sales tax is. Most people come into a job they want done (remodel etc) with just enough to cover it. Throw the tax on a $10,000 job and suddenly you realize you just don't have the overhead.

Can anyone do my job? Yes, sure they could. Could everyone do my job right? No. Of course they can't. Could they do my job for less with the quality of work? Maybe, but where experience comes in it can literally, I shit you not, save thousands of dollers.

[kylekrueger]

I'm not trying to make too much of a political statement here, but I think that the current administration should think about not spending 90 billion a month on wars and maybe put some of that money back into the American economy so it would get blue collar and other businesses back on there feet. Its not the terrorists that are going to kill us it is our own blindness to see the real problems in our own country that will eventually kill us.

Well thats my two cents.

[StereoInstaller1]

I would say your value determines your income.

2 concepts that are inter-related.

So decent used car salesmen are worth more to society than cops or paramedics? The guys who go door to door selling comcast services are worth more than the mayor of your city?

I think you may wish to re-examine your statement.

I made about $18,000 last year, if that. Is the average McDs shift manager worth more to society than me?

[Wiglaf]

I'm not trying to make too much of a political statement here, but I think that the current administration should think about not spending 90 billion a month on wars and maybe put some of that money back into the American economy so it would get blue collar and other businesses back on there feet. Its not the terrorists that are going to kill us it is our own blindness to see the real problems in our own country that will eventually kill us.

Well thats my two cents.

war or not, they've tried the whole throwing money at it approach.. it did get some results but the only part of it i would call efficient was how well it upset the republicans.
Cutting taxes by that amount would help a little but it doesn't solve any problems.

[ck_taft325is]

war or not, they've tried the whole throwing money at it approach.. it did get some results but the only part of it i would call efficient was how well it upset the republicans.
Cutting taxes by that amount would help a little but it doesn't solve any problems.

I lol'd hard!

While it may not solve things, a little help is sometimes all you need. Agree or disagree? The current tax situation is getting bigger and bigger. That's not helping, it's hurting.

[Schnitzer318is]

^This country NEEDS more taxes to pay for it's ludicrous debt, wars, and programs. Which is fine by me...

Tax brackets on the rich used to be 90+% back in the 40's,50's, and then starting slowly coming down. They still lived like kings though. Their quality of living was still the same. Then in the 70's those upper tax brackets % came down CRAZY (thanks Reagan!). The country went from having a huge middle class and great quality of living to what we have today.

And that is the problem with the country. Everyone wants as big a piece of every pie out there for themselves. Everyone wants to live in this great country but NO ONE wants to pay for it. The rich want to keep ALL their money and have the middle class shoulder more of the tax burden. You can NOT sap the middle class or you will kill your economy. The rich need to start taking up more of the tax burden as they had in the past when we had great quality of living.

Here is a case in point. I was discussing with an acquaintance (not rich but definitely well off) about the economy and he was complaining about paying taxes (he's in a 30 something % bracket. This means he made about $150,000 last year and paid something like $30,000. I had to restrain myself, my wife and I made just shy of $50,000 last year and got a $700 refund. I would give my left nut to be in his tax bracket. LOL ya, I would be paying 30,500 more in taxes, but I'd be netting 70,000 more in income!

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Dose not get it,


You take from the "rich" too much, this removes incentive to earn more and advance your self or business. As you have to take greater risk, and put forth more effort, only to be rewarded by have most of the gains realized over where you are at, being confiscated. When that happens business are more likely too shut the doors pack their shit and retire to a beach some where, or lay people off to cut costs to make the tax bill, or any other multitude of economy depressing things, Business owners dont hire people and pay them outta charity, they do because they need a job done, if the govt penalizes them for too much for being productive they will just do what is best for them 1st, and thats either make LESS or shut down all together, and how is either of those options good for the economy as a whole????

You ever work a ton of OT and NET less money than if you had only worked say 12 hours of OT. Yeah same idea, you get penalized for earning more money, that makes my insensitive to work 63-91 hours a week as I dont make enough NET pay or even get less NET pay than I get at 62 hours a week, to make it worth my time or extra effort.

While you would love to have your friends life and income, you too would look at it differently if you were in his shoes, thats 30k that he could be investing back into his business, or home, or helping those that need it, or hiring another employee, all kinds of thing.


Last thing we have tons of historical data that shows when you lower the tax burden over all, tax revenue GOES UP, and when you raise the tax rates revenue goes DOWN, Huh why could that be ?????

[Kruzen]

Some hot dog stand guys in NY make 6 figures, how valuable are they to our growth?

Yep.

[CorvallisBMW]

I stumbled on this graph earlier, found it very intersting. Note how it's color-coded depending on which party controlled the executive branch.

[Schnitzer318is]

You take from the "rich" too much, this removes incentive to earn more and advance your self or business.

Doesn't happen... like I said tax brackets used to be insanely high for the wealthy (2mil+/yr) and they still stayed wealthy and still operated their businesses/careers. For example, in the mid 40's the gov't took .96 cents out of every dollar you made if you made more than 200,000/yr (2,200,000 in today's $$$). The rich still worked for every .04 they could get out of that $1. As long as there is money to be made, people will go after it.

As far as seeing it from his perspective... You see it as "the gov't is TAKING $30,000 from me." I see it as you are contributing $30,000 to the country you live in, without which, you could not make the money you did. You can have a very nice standard of living on $120,000/yr after tax.

I have worked lots of overtime, and though taxed heavily, always came out as more money on my paycheck than had I not worked it. I can see where you are coming from saying some individuals would choose to make less money to pay less taxes... but I don't think that would be the majority of people as more money (even incrementally) is always more better.

[mrsleeve]

Doesn't happen... like I said tax brackets used to be insanely high for the wealthy (2mil+/yr) and they still stayed wealthy and still operated their businesses/careers. For example, in the mid 40's the gov't took .96 cents out of every dollar you made if you made more than 200,000/yr (2,200,000 in today's $$$). The rich still worked for every .04 they could get out of that $1. As long as there is money to be made, people will go after it.

Bread cost 3 cents a loaf, eggs a nickel a dozen, a car was 800-1200 bucks new, you could buy a working 280 ac farm with electrical power and indoor plumbing for 4000 dollars. Those were the days when 10k would go a very very very long way, hence why the wealthy stayed very wealthy even at those insane tax brackets making lots of money. Your money went much further then. even when adjusted for inflation your example dose not hold up, with modern pricing on many of those items.

As far as seeing it from his perspective... You see it as "the gov't is TAKING $30,000 from me." I see it as you are contributing $30,000 to the country you live in, without which, you could not make the money you did. You can have a very nice standard of living on $120,000/yr after tax.

Its your money that is being confiscated from you under penalty of law. While yes I will agree to a point we are paying for the well being of the country, I have issues with the amount its should not be anywhere near what it is today or was in the 20th century Rich or not. You should really look into the amount off taxes we pay on everything from food to fuel to housing to e30 parts. We all pay huge amounts of hidden taxes fees and chargers for everything. Many cases, we pay taxes on taxes.

I have no issues with paying taxes, I have issues with the amount of them and what they get used for, by and large.

I have worked lots of overtime, and though taxed heavily, always came out as more money on my paycheck than had I not worked it. I can see where you are coming from saying some individuals would choose to make less money to pay less taxes... but I don't think that would be the majority of people as more money (even incrementally) is always more better.

Dude, much of the time I have more OT hours than straight time. If I work 63-69 hours I get less NET pay than if I just work 62 hours, YES LESS, even though I gross up too 280 bucks more . So to make more take home pay I have to work 9 hours more to just make a few bucks more for my effort. How is that worth my time????? and if I work more then 103 hours or so same thing all over again.

[kronus]

96% of your income is still 96% of your income, no matter how cheap shit is. You think prices rose and incomes stayed the same?

[Farbin Kaiber]

Doesn't happen... like I said tax brackets used to be insanely high for the wealthy (2mil+/yr) and they still stayed wealthy and still operated their businesses/careers. For example, in the mid 40's the gov't took .96 cents out of every dollar you made if you made more than 200,000/yr (2,200,000 in today's $$$). The rich still worked for every .04 they could get out of that $1. As long as there is money to be made, people will go after it.

Best explaination of a crock of bullshit I've ever seen.

Smaller, more fiscally responsable government is all we need. There are programs that should have never been started, that will not be shut down, that do not create the benifit they were designed for. So much red tape has mired many without the things these programs were designed to provide.

Anyone here ever deal with VA stuff? It's such a clusterfuck, and I'd have had no idea what BS they put people through. When a Veitnam Vet is denied medical care clinically tied to Agent Orange contact, I think there is a line that has been crossed, I'm not speaking from a case study, but from what my Father-in-Law had gone through.

When people are taxed from their income, then the remaining income is taxed for purchaces, then the remaining income is taxed when you put it in your savings accout, we have gone too far.

[kronus]

There are programs that should have never been started, that will not be shut down, that do not create the benifit they were designed for.

COUGH the war on "terrorism"