Tough questions of a bullshit ticket! (update post 102)

[Zasz]

I hate cops. Nuff said.
I've only met one cop that had a good personality, and that's because I was honest with him and he was honest with me. None of that powerplay bullshit.

They probably just had tiny dicks.

[e30e]

The RR does not need no trespassing signs, Union Pacific has 33,000 miles of track. Its not going to have signs posted for people to steal or vandalize.

[dvck]

Edwin, i don't mean to spoil your photo thread when i finish editing, but so that people get a
clear picture of what happened; consider it a teaser...

this is where we were



this is where the other group was (as relevant or irrelevant it may be) also i know they
were not there on permit and just wandering as we were, enjoying the landscape and
taking some photos, because they asked us when we got there, what the best way to
get into the river bank was. The river bank is over the wall that they are sitting on, in the
broken section of fencing.



the white Chrysler belonged to the other group, the street in the back is Meyers street and not
Mission Road as written on the ticket.

for what it matters, this is the location, fully accessible to anyone on foot or car, no signs posted anywhere about RR property or trespassing.



and if how close we were to those tracks brings up a question, this is the same tracks we were
close to, not on the track, but close to...



perhaps if we were behind this gate, i'd understand...


street to the left is Meyers, again, fully accessible to public.


white chrysler is their car, bulding far in the background is "color graphics" 150 n meyers st.


and here was the lots security guard that came out to ask the cops what was going on,
(spoke to him afterwards) and the other group had had their talking and left in their car.





*btw E, nvmd the lenscap, i found it tucked in a pocket of microfibers in my bag.

[e30e]

I work for Union Pacific, GOOD LUCK lol fighting this ticket. It's private property good luck doing anything to them; this is a billion dollar company they do what they want.

BTW Union Pacific police patrol due to vandalism and theft, NOT FOR PROFIT.

We have tons of copper theft and vandalism, good luck.

[greanthumb]

damn homie!! I feel like its just me sometimes(thinkin cops are racist). i swear.... ive gotten away w murder cause of my chalk white cracker ass. all that shits fucked up!!

[IRON-E]

But honestly, in California-police are all about revenue. It wasn't a matter of "protecting anyone" or "preventing a crime" it was about justifying their job, salary, and generating revenue.

So much truth right here.

[dvck]

i KNOW they didn't have a permit because they were simply asked to leave.

had they had a permit, they show the permit, everything is cool, they keep shooting, but they walked straight to the car, got in and left, not to mention that universal human demeanor of
im taking up on it before minds get changed.

[Rsully70sev]

And don't get me wrong bro, I'm 1000% on your side, I'm just telling you the blame game doesn't work, and being in LA, neither will the racism card-if you were in bumfuck South Dakota, maybe.

I would play up the scenery, and definitely bring some pictures of what you guys were shooting, that's a great idea. But honestly, in California-police are all about revenue. It wasn't a matter of "protecting anyone" or "preventing a crime" it was about justifying their job, salary, and generating revenue.

[Earendil]

I understand that my chances are slim and I understand that yes I broke the law but it was unintentionally. So c'mon if I never told you guys about this law, would you have believed it if it happened to you?

I certainly wouldn't, because here in WA people cross the train tracks all the time, it's the only way to get to the water usually!

Of course, there is usually one tourist every year that gets creamed by a train. They stand on the tracks taking picture and don't realize that an oncoming train makes almost zero noise. The effect is amplified by the fact that the wind is usually 10-20mph around here.

The only time I've heard of RR types getting pissy about people near the tracks is during the 4th of July.

[IRON-E]

Agreed. However I would still mention the circumstances under which the ticket was given, and the circumstances under which you broke a law that you didn't know existed.

The reality is that though he broke the law, a good judge will see the intention, and see the circumstances, and realize that no one got hurt, nothing bad came of it, and the guilty party acted out of neither negligence or disrespect. They were in fact in pursuit of an art, which I would also point out.

With regards to the pictures you took, I would not point out that you have pictures of the cops or the other people present. If you do anything, show the judge a picture of the art you were trying to produce. Get side tracked talking about how beautiful it was down there.

And I certainly would not hint that it was racism per say. And here is why:
I'm sure the racism gets played in court a lot when it doesn't apply, and a Judge knows this. It is also a very heavy accusation, and doesn't make you action less illegal.

However, Judges are smart people, and can put two and two together. If you mention the circumstances, and don't mention the color of anyone, the judge will automatically visualize the models as being white, and probably knows whether the officers are white. Don't tell the judge why you were questioned and fined, make him wonder if the other party was too, make the judge wonder why it was that you were given a whopping fine for doing something so mundane.

Again, when I was in court I did not tell the judge that the cop was a dick. I didn't tell the judge that the cop's only intent was to pull people over at 2am on an empty road for a freshly painted double line. I told the judge the facts without my personal conclusions. This caused the judge to start to wonder WHY it was that I was not warned, and he started asking me additional questions like "Did you weave or excessively speed?" And a bunch of other questions that I was able to answer "No your honor" to. As I denied more questions from the Judge, it was obvious that the Judge was making his own conclusion, that the Cop had just wasted both our times by giving me a ticket instead of a warning.

I suspect if you do a similar thing, you will be let free. Just remember not to say anything irrelevant that doesn't matter to your guilt. It doesn't matter if other people got a ticket or not, it doesn't matter what color your skin is, it doesn't matter how much of a dick the cop was. What matters are intent, and circumstance. For that, I'd definitely go with ignorance, pursuit of art, saw other people doing it, and at no time did you feel like you or the others were at risk because you did not cross the train tracks.

Thanks dude, your personal experience definitely will come into play when I go see the judge. I never thought that the race card would do me any help anyways, I've worked as a legal assistant before and will pull a few tricks from my sleeve when necessary but just in case, the 2 cops will still get sued for that bullshit regardless. (just to clarify = the cop who issued the tickets was of Asian descent and the back up cop was white or Hispanic) I don't have beef with any one race either.

I understand that my chances are slim and I understand that yes I broke the law but it was unintentionally. So c'mon if I never told you guys about this law, would you have believed it if it happened to you?

[Earendil]

You're going to sound like a waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles in court saying "well the photographers didn't get one!"..."the cops are racist!"

That doesn't matter, and it's completely irrelevant-especially if you don't even have proof that other people were even there under the same circumstances as you.

Agreed. However I would still mention the circumstances under which the ticket was given, and the circumstances under which you broke a law that you didn't know existed.

The reality is that though he broke the law, a good judge will see the intention, and see the circumstances, and realize that no one got hurt, nothing bad came of it, and the guilty party acted out of neither negligence or disrespect. They were in fact in pursuit of an art, which I would also point out.

With regards to the pictures you took, I would not point out that you have pictures of the cops or the other people present. If you do anything, show the judge a picture of the art you were trying to produce. Get side tracked talking about how beautiful it was down there.

And I certainly would not hint that it was racism per say. And here is why:
I'm sure the racism gets played in court a lot when it doesn't apply, and a Judge knows this. It is also a very heavy accusation, and doesn't make you action less illegal.

However, Judges are smart people, and can put two and two together. If you mention the circumstances, and don't mention the color of anyone, the judge will automatically visualize the models as being white, and probably knows whether the officers are white. Don't tell the judge why you were questioned and fined, make him wonder if the other party was too, make the judge wonder why it was that you were given a whopping fine for doing something so mundane.

Again, when I was in court I did not tell the judge that the cop was a dick. I didn't tell the judge that the cop's only intent was to pull people over at 2am on an empty road for a freshly painted double line. I told the judge the facts without my personal conclusions. This caused the judge to start to wonder WHY it was that I was not warned, and he started asking me additional questions like "Did you weave or excessively speed?" And a bunch of other questions that I was able to answer "No your honor" to. As I denied more questions from the Judge, it was obvious that the Judge was making his own conclusion, that the Cop had just wasted both our times by giving me a ticket instead of a warning.

I suspect if you do a similar thing, you will be let free. Just remember not to say anything irrelevant that doesn't matter to your guilt. It doesn't matter if other people got a ticket or not, it doesn't matter what color your skin is, it doesn't matter how much of a dick the cop was. What matters are intent, and circumstance. For that, I'd definitely go with ignorance, pursuit of art, saw other people doing it, and at no time did you feel like you or the others were at risk because you did not cross the train tracks.

[mrsleeve]

still how do you know they did not have a permit or permission to be there, you dont have to be a pro to get that kinda thing you know

[IRON-E]

Look man, quit being Hispanic. Be white instead, we get away with WAY more shit.

Seriously though, this shit just enrages me. Dude, get a lawyer. Not for the ticket, but so you can sue the railroad for harassing you.

It is called racism, and it is against the law.

Best of luck though. If you start a "I need to hire a lawyer fund", do it. I will help what I can.

Luke

Thanks Luke, I appreciate the thought.

You're going to sound like a waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles in court saying "well the photographers didn't get one!"..."the cops are racist!"

That doesn't matter, and it's completely irrelevant-especially if you don't even have proof that other people were even there under the same circumstances as you.

It's like getting pulled over for speeding and saying "didn't you see that Golf pass me at like 90mph?!"...."Uh no, but I got you"

"Railroad rights of way are indeed considered private property--even those owned by public entities such as transit districts. The "roads" often found next to them are generally for use by railroad maintenance of way personnel only. Walking or riding on a railroad right-of-way is trespassing and illegal."

Just because you and everyone else (including me) think's it's bullshit, it still was illegal.

You're right on with just about everything. Except that, we kinda read each other's mind with my buddy and he continued to take pictures of what was going on. He even has a picture of the other cop chatting it up with the model & crew + license plate #s.

I swore, I would never be one of those waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffless, crying about "racism" and shit but the more I think about it, the angrier it makes me, I really did get racially profiled. Hopefully by telling our side of the story, we'll at least get a lower fine. Be sure of this though, I will sue them 2 waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffless for racism, no doubt!

He'll post pictures later on as he gets out of work.

[e30trooper]

i hope you get this osrted out edwin. Ive been fairly lucky the past 3 years with no tickets. Its true tho, if your white and in a nicer area in LA , cops dont even look at you. he hit you up with a hardcore ticket for no reason at all. Fight it! Sign up for Pre Paid Legal. What time of the day was it?

[mrsleeve]

"Railroad rights of way are indeed considered private property--even those owned by public entities such as transit districts. The "roads" often found next to them are generally for use by railroad maintenance of way personnel only. Walking or riding on a railroad right-of-way is trespassing and illegal."

Just because you and everyone else (including me) think's it's bullshit, it still was illegal.

THIS

RR are fucking srs about them, the rail yard at home is kinda touchy about pics being taken of it form what I hear