Tough questions of a bullshit ticket! (update post 102)

[greanthumb]

preach on brotha:hitler:

[DTM190]

The Union Pacific police are not like your typical city cops, there job is to protect and serve the Railroads, not the public.

Was the OP obstructing train traffic? No. Was the OP damaging or vandalizing railroad property? no. Was anyone in danger?? No. The officers should have given the trespassers a verbal warning and requested that they leave the premises. Instead, they acted like dickheads.

I think it would be cheaper to put up a fence than to employ these 2 douches if protecting the railroads is so important.

That train line doesnt look like its seen a train in a long time either as mentioned.

I think your 4th and 5th pics are very relevant and you should most definitely present these at court.

Another thing you may want to mention is the fact that they have not put the correct address on the notice, technicalities like that have helped me in the past

[e30e]

E30e...no, just no.

Of course their motive is revenue. Why do you think it's a billion dollar industry? They KNEW these guys weren't here for vandalism or theft, they saw an opportunity to make a quick thousand and substantiate their jobs.

I'm sure they got a hand job when they got back to HQ for writing these guys up.

Your right, Union Pacific makes tons of money off tickets, STFU! We make an average of 100k per train load, fining someone is peanuts and does not validate the cops jobs. What validates there job is when they saved someone's life or kept someone from causing 100 of thousands of dollars in damages.


As for the OP, like I said earlier good luck with this, Federal Railroad Administration's laws will supersede any California laws on trespassing because the railroads are much like an airport's laws with the FAA. The Union Pacific police are not like your typical city cops, there job is to protect and serve the Railroads, not the public.

[ethrtyiS]

so edwin just you got fined right? did you get a phone number from one of the members of the other party there(could be used as witnesses)? did you get the number of the security guard(again, could be witness)? that track doesn't seem to be in use at all, is it(hence why there is a car on it)?

heres my input:
first thing is first, plead not guilty(obviously) and set your court date, but try and delay if possible. within now until your actual trail date, gather as much information as you possibly can. omar seems to have a great start so far with this information. go back if you need to, to take additional shots of where the car was, where the other group was, the width between track and your spot, and try to make it in favor of yourself's. if you can describe your placement near the tracks as not trespassing, or not in any terms of breaking the law then you will have a better chance at winning the case.

mention that

...this is the location, fully accessible to anyone on foot or car, no signs posted anywhere about RR property or trespassing.

as omar stated. additionally, if you can find other locations such as this one where it is fully accessible by foot and car without signs, take pictures of that as well. reason being is because you can compare it to your situation and demonstrate it(depending on the looks) the same or worse than your situation to the judge.

mention the other group that was way closer than you two were and show pictures. mention that they were able to leave with a warning. explain to the judge how you think that you should be let off with a warning because you had no idea what you were doing was in fact illegal. you were only there with the intention of some picture taking.

if the officers state something like you were doing something beyond what is actually true and denies the other group, then you can say objection your honor, inadmissible evidence, and explain how the other group was let off free and show some visual evidence. also if you got any of their numbers or the security guard's number, this would also help as a call to witness. if the officers fail to prove your guilt at the end of their testimony don't ask any additional questions, immediately move to have the case dismissed and explain what they failed to prove.

remember everything about the situation, the distance between the track and the other parked cars(go get a measuring tape), the distance from the track to your car, etc. this can all be used at court to help justify your innocence!

you can even ask the officers questions, be polite and ask things such as how many of the other people were there, what were you wearing, what was the weather like. all these questions can be asked to see how well versed the officers were. BTW, if the one of the officers doesn't show up, you AUTOMATICALLY win the case, both citation officers must be present!
lastly, just try and delay as much as you can, if possible.

if you go in there with all this information and you are very well prepared for any question the judge may ask, you will have a FAR greater chance of having the case dropped on your behalf.

here is some information that i can find regarding tresspassing on railroads:

CALIFORNIA
It is unlawful in California for anyone to enter or remain upon the property of any railroad where entry, presence or conduct upon the property interferes with or interrupts the safe and efficient operation of any locomotive. A violation of this section is a misdemeanor under California law. Cal. [Penal] Code § 369i (West 1999). Also see Cal. [Penal] Code § 554 (West 1999) regarding posting of property.

By definition, trespassers are illegally on railroad property without permission. They are most often pedestrians who walk across or along railroad tracks as a shortcut to another destination, or they are engaged in another activity such as loitering, hunting, bicycling, snowmobiling, or ATV riding.

California trespassing laws are unique in that they can be filed as infractions, misdemeanors, or felonies. Although all three are possible, criminal trespass is most frequently prosecuted as a misdemeanor.

Misdemeanor Penal Code 602 violations subject you to up to six months in a county jail and a maximum $1,000 fine.23 However, certain violations (for example, refusing to leave a battered woman’s shelter after being asked to do so by a manager) will raise your jail exposure to one year.24

If your offense doesn’t rise to misdemeanor level, it may be charged as (or reduced as part of a plea bargain to) an infraction.


Example: Ignoring a "no trespassing" sign and going onto another’s private property will generally be charged as an infraction…the first and second time. A third offense on the same property will lead to a misdemeanor filing.25

if anything else comes up in my head ill let you know, thats all i can think of at this hour. i wish the best of luck with this ticket. also little things, call and ask to have the court appearance moved to a further court location as officers don't want to travel all that way.

shit, thats a lot of writing...anyways, good luck edwin. if you need any additional help, let me know.

[greanthumb]

nice pics btw.... hahahaha(not funny):neutral:

[CleanAzzE30z]

Its possible the model and camera crew had permits. But at very least you should talk to a lawyer and tell him what happened. Although with no 3rd party witnesses it will be difficult to get them to dismiss the ticket (which technically is valid) on grounds of profiling or whatever. Ive had my fair share of run-ins with the Metro rail rent-a-cops. One of them wanted to check me for warrants for fucking not paying the fare instead of just giving me the fare ticket (long story, I always pay except this once). Definitely talk to a lawyer to see if you can get the bullshit fine/charge reduced.

The answer he gave to your "Where is the sign posted?" question is pure bullshit, however. It doesnt matter what his opinion on what percentage of the population knows the laws of the rails, its supposed to be posted. But its doubtful that the way he reacted or treated you, unless flagrantly done so, could be proven or matter in the course of him giving you a righteous ticket (albeit being a prick about it, which isnt per se illegal unless he actually said some sideways disrespectful shit about inborn dignity or inherent and unchangeable physical traits you may or may not have). Its his word against yours, at this point. And that, my friend, is a battle you will never win. BUT, like I said, its prudent to get a lawyer to reduce the charge/fine. Even with a PD youll get a chance to plead to some bullshit charge. They upsell and pad the charges precisely for that reason. Which is wrong, but fuck it, its life.

Thats why I learned to stay the fuck away from all situations that involve pigs that I can control (which in this case you couldnt really expect this guy to go "Wyatt Earp" on you instead of telling you to be on your way). But its the luck of the draw, brother.

[Pantless Spency]

that is a sexy photo location. thats all ima add. also i hate cops. never gotten a ticket in my life and ever since i got the e30 ive had 700 dollars in tickets -_____-

[Rsully70sev]

E30e...no, just no.

Of course their motive is revenue. Why do you think it's a billion dollar industry? They KNEW these guys weren't here for vandalism or theft, they saw an opportunity to make a quick thousand and substantiate their jobs.

I'm sure they got a hand job when they got back to HQ for writing these guys up.

[Ryann]

Well if he was within 8 feet of the track with his vehicle he is obstructing vehicles because they are required to slow down if that is the case. If he was standing 4 feet from the track then he is obstructing traffic, trains are required to slow down or stop if people are within 4 feet. He may of been near a work zone or a sensitive area. There may of been a high sensitive train moving toxic waste, government materials, or had higher up Union Pacific people on a scout or passenger train in the area. You never know why the cops did what they did. The Union Pacific Police deal with trespassers and vandals all the time, YES they could of been nice. But they weren't, they did there job. Did they do there job with other people, no; but they get to make the decision.

I understand what you're saying, but where are the trains? My point is writing the ticket didn't make trains or people safer. It would be more effective for the officers to carry with them gruesome pictures of train accidents and explain to people the dangers of lingering near the tracks.

Like you stated, as did I, they could've been nice but they weren't. Dickheads.

[b*saint]

What are train tracks on? Private property line power lines?

[IRON-E]

Sorry sir, that does not look like a model on the left.

that's what I said.......lol

[IRON-E]

Well if he was within 8 feet of the track with his vehicle he is obstructing vehicles because they are required to slow down if that is the case. If he was standing 4 feet from the track then he is obstructing traffic, trains are required to slow down or stop if people are within 4 feet. He may of been near a work zone or a sensitive area. There may of been a high sensitive train moving toxic waste, government materials, or had higher up Union Pacific people on a scout or passenger train in the area. You never know why the cops did what they did. The Union Pacific Police deal with trespassers and vandals all the time, YES they could of been nice. But they weren't, they did there job. Did they do there job with other people, no; but they get to make the decision.

I hate read your post but only because you sound right. I've spoken to enough people today and they assure me, that it's not as bad as I'm making it out to be. Hopefully it's a lesser amount than what is posted on the web site. :(

[ck_taft325is]

Sorry sir, that does not look like a model on the left.

[e30e]

No offense, but I can't stand this perspective. Laws are put into place for the purpose of resolving specific issues. Law enforcement regularly applies laws in a way that is unrelated to their original intended result.

Was the OP obstructing train traffic? No. Was the OP damaging or vandalizing railroad property? no. Was anyone in danger?? No. The officers should have given the trespassers a verbal warning and requested that they leave the premises. Instead, they acted like dickheads.

OP: the railroad is legally very powerful, I've heard some crazy stories. Best of luck to you!

Well if he was within 8 feet of the track with his vehicle he is obstructing vehicles because they are required to slow down if that is the case. If he was standing 4 feet from the track then he is obstructing traffic, trains are required to slow down or stop if people are within 4 feet. He may of been near a work zone or a sensitive area. There may of been a high sensitive train moving toxic waste, government materials, or had higher up Union Pacific people on a scout or passenger train in the area. You never know why the cops did what they did. The Union Pacific Police deal with trespassers and vandals all the time, YES they could of been nice. But they weren't, they did there job. Did they do there job with other people, no; but they get to make the decision.

[Ryann]

if you're breaking the law, its still breaking the law.

No offense, but I can't stand this perspective. Laws are put into place for the purpose of resolving specific issues. Law enforcement regularly applies laws in a way that is unrelated to their original intended result.

Was the OP obstructing train traffic? No. Was the OP damaging or vandalizing railroad property? no. Was anyone in danger?? No. The officers should have given the trespassers a verbal warning and requested that they leave the premises. Instead, they acted like dickheads.

OP: the railroad is legally very powerful, I've heard some crazy stories. Best of luck to you!