Why forums need "assholes"

[FredK]

Misguided, yes, but at least he doesn't cop an attitude. AND, no chicken wire!

and yes, it is very ricey. im japanese

[hamann318is]

Yes, god people are retarded. But so are lots of other people.

Can I ride in your race car?

Commas are overrated.

[Skafrog]

You know Heeter, I hate to admit it, but I finally started seeing your point in bringing a stock car to HDPE and worrying about mods later. It makes sense to get your seat time in stock trim, learn the limits of the stock car, which are, of course, much lower than those of a modified car, whether it be suspension limitations, power limitations, gearing, tires, whatever - the bottom line is, you learn the "worst case scenario" behavior of your car before modding it.

Ah Heeter - you are a wise and misunderstood soul.

I am sorry, but I find this statement among one if the most incorrect ones I have read on r3v.
Mod your car to your liking. You DO NOT want your car reaching it's "low" limits mid corner, or else you spin in front of another car. If you are a good driver, you will be past the limits of a stock car in one track weekend. The whole point of a DE is progression, both from the car and the driver's perspective.
Also, sorry to bash you heeter, but I would not be listening to him for sage advice. He just happens to be the most vocal person on this board about how much he has gone to the track; he doesnt have the most experience by far.
I modded the ever living shit out of my car before I took it on the track. And you know what? When I went off line, or thought I would run out of grip, I didnt. I didnt run into the wall at turn 3 at nashville speedway when my stock brakes cooked, because I was able to take the corner fast enough.
Heeter is correct perhaps in the point of you dont want to upgrade HP, but certainly, upgrade your suspension and brakes. Once I finally was able to overdrive my car, I was able to realize what was going on due to the amount of seat time I had accrued reaching that level, and was able to save it.

[Axxe]

I personnaly don't think hitting the track in a bone stock ready to fall apart 18-year old car is a good idea. There are a lot of items that need to be replaced to get it into "like-new" condition, and why replace with stock when an upgrade can be made for similar expense?

But yes, the ///meric kid needs to be castrated. Get the car in tip top shape, don't worry about weight or power, just learn to drive.

[rwh11385]

Case, counterpoint:

Between me complaining about modding cars before tracking and what most people initially want to do, there is a decent degree of moderation in the middle. I wouldn't probably track on stock stock suspension either, but I would do so on H&R Sports. For anyone who has their daily driver and just wants a drop and possibly looking for DE once and maybe Auto-X 2-3 times a year. . . it sure as hell makes sense to have the comfy ride and mild improvement. Look around, everyone and their momma are upgrading to race spring on their daily and that's considered basic and elementary. Some of the fastest guys locally at the track have near stock e30s except on sports and races, stripped, and with r compounds (good amount of experience). No coilovers, no mad HP mods, and both on Bilstein sports OTS items. But they're still passing a ton of people and fly around Putnam.

Can people progress along? Sure. Should they "progress" even before they started? Hahaha, that's not possible. I say most people should wait until after their 2 or 3 school to really make any decisions. Before their first, they really can't have a good understanding of something they never tried. And after the first school, the first reaction might be "OMG I AM A TRACK RACER, let me rip out my interior and get a rollbar!". But hopefully by the 3rd DE, people are level-headed and thinking right.

About progressing - one thing at a time. And then you'll actually experience and know what each mod did. And mod by finding a problem and realizing you can "fix" it by something you need. Now you might be able to change your driving style and improve yourself to get around a lot of things, but something like Charlie was talking about with his camber. "Man, I could really use more negative camber" and then got the fixed plates and was happy with the change.

Eric believes if he mods his car he will learn a lot of about it. False. He is throwing all these parts on, and won't have anything to compare it to. If I started on 205s, I wouldn't understand the step up from 195s to them as well as I do, and what a difference it makes. This is a good reason why to do one thing at a time.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4674426&postcount=14

A lot of people get into the glamour of tracking and go with all these mods to be the greatest and fastest DE pilot out there, but really lose the focus of it. Sufficient brakes, competent suspension, and good tires are really all you need. As others have said in threads I've read here (DBurke's "So you want to attend a track event") look at what Instructors drive. They lack a shitload of go fast parts and usually just have good track pads, decent suspensions, and r compounds. Nothing fancy really. Why do kids need a ton of mods and they don't? Because a lot of kids get the wrong idea.

And gotta remember, Rob works at a raceshop. By osmosis, there is peer pressure to drive fast, mod a car, and be badass. So take that into consideration as well. Patience and ability to drive the same car is something that is good to try for the regular Jim and Jane HPDE participants.

[Bimmerfanatik]

About progressing - one thing at a time. And then you'll actually experience and know what each mod did. And mod by finding a problem and realizing you can "fix" it by something you need.

That's more of where I'm heading now - take the car out stock for a class or two, then mod accordingly, one at a time, to see what each mod does on its own.

Sort of like dyno'ing each part you put on to see its individual gains. That way instead of just knowing the combined gain, you can measure the individual part's effect on the car's performance.

I don't mean I'm going out there in a 20 year old car as is - it will be SAFE, but it will be stock. There is certainly a difference between safe stock and 20 year old original parts stock.

[Skafrog]

Case, counterpoint:

Between me complaining about modding cars before tracking and what most people initially want to do, there is a decent degree of moderation in the middle. I wouldn't probably track on stock stock suspension either, but I would do so on H&R Sports. For anyone who has their daily driver and just wants a drop and possibly looking for DE once and maybe Auto-X 2-3 times a year. . . it sure as hell makes sense to have the comfy ride and mild improvement. Look around, everyone and their momma are upgrading to race spring on their daily and that's considered basic and elementary. Some of the fastest guys locally at the track have near stock e30s except on sports and races, stripped, and with r compounds (good amount of experience). No coilovers, no mad HP mods, and both on Bilstein sports OTS items. But they're still passing a ton of people and fly around Putnam.

This sounds like a personal vendetta, not actual tech.
#1) Who cares what they do? It's not your car.
#2) Regarding the suspension bit, I want to see this. You know Heeter, there is a reason why KP cars are fucking slow. Also, you are once again relying on your vast experience to make these assumptions. You put R compounds on a shopping cart, and you will be faster than an e30 on full on race parts with shitty tires. Either way, this has nothing to do with the discusssion, you are once again digressing into thinking just because people are putting race springs on, they are terrible people. I have a news flash. You know who buys most of the race parts? Street drivers. You know who goes to our shop and gets crazy ass coilovers put on? Street drivers. You have to realize that fact. Either way, its not part of our argument.

Can people progress along? Sure. Should they "progress" even before they started? Hahaha, that's not possible. I say most people should wait until after their 2 or 3 school to really make any decisions. Before their first, they really can't have a good understanding of something they never tried. And after the first school, the first reaction might be "OMG I AM A TRACK RACER, let me rip out my interior and get a rollbar!". But hopefully by the 3rd DE, people are level-headed and thinking right.

You know, I am going to go out on a limb, and possibly seem "horrible", but I 100% disagree. We all have driven our cars fast on the street. If you havent, you dont attend DE's. You have an idea what it is like to go fast even before your first school. And after their first school, let them go crazy. Hell, before their first school, let them mod their car. You know why? Because they will be too scared to realize the car's full potential the first few times out. Hell, I didnt reach my cars limit until my 4th track weekend. By that time, I knew what to do when the car finally did break traction, since I had been flirting with the limits for the entire 4th day.

About progressing - one thing at a time. And then you'll actually experience and know what each mod did. And mod by finding a problem and realizing you can "fix" it by something you need. Now you might be able to change your driving style and improve yourself to get around a lot of things, but something like Charlie was talking about with his camber. "Man, I could really use more negative camber" and then got the fixed plates and was happy with the change.

Right. Like I am doing. I found that my car oversteers at the limit, so I am putting in a bigger front bar. That is progression as well. If you are constantly limited by your car, how are you going to get faster? And if you dont strive on going faster in a DE, you have no business participating in one.

Eric believes if he mods his car he will learn a lot of about it. False. He is throwing all these parts on, and won't have anything to compare it to. If I started on 205s, I wouldn't understand the step up from 195s to them as well as I do, and what a difference it makes. This is a good reason why to do one thing at a time.

Why is this so important? So you can look back and say "damn, look at all the fucking money I wasted" like I did? If you are going to put a suspension on your car, and you are thinking about tracking, do it right. Your thinking will make you a fast driver over 10 years, as you take baby steps towards your ultimate goal. Why can't you mod your car to the KP limit, and then learn how to drive until you can reach that limit? Way faster, way cheaper, same results.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4674426&postcount=14

A lot of people get into the glamour of tracking and go with all these mods to be the greatest and fastest DE pilot out there, but really lose the focus of it. Sufficient brakes, competent suspension, and good tires are really all you need. As others have said in threads I've read here (DBurke's "So you want to attend a track event") look at what Instructors drive. They lack a shitload of go fast parts and usually just have good track pads, decent suspensions, and r compounds. Nothing fancy really. Why do kids need a ton of mods and they don't? Because a lot of kids get the wrong idea.

Robert, you cant say a damn word. You came back from Putnam carrying the amighty "I have been to a track event, hear me roar" stick with alacrity for many months. Once again, I can't agree. I have been to many (15+) track events where there has been either a DE by itself, or a race day/de in the same weekend, and all of the instructors have modded cars or full blown race cars. Also, why are YOU doing DE's? To one day race BMWCCA KP. Why am I doing it? To race EM. Why is Charlie doing it? To race spece30. You see where I am going with this? People do DE's because they seek a higher level of track experience. You wont get this if you run on the same damn setup for 10 years. Why? Because you get in a damn groove. All of the sudden, if you put new suspension, on, you can go that much faster, but you have been so used to driving the same speed, that it will require a weekend to catch back up.

And gotta remember, Rob works at a raceshop. By osmosis, there is peer pressure to drive fast, mod a car, and be badass. So take that into consideration as well. Patience and ability to drive the same car is something that is good to try for the regular Jim and Jane HPDE participants.

And how does the fact that I work at a race shop impede this? Once again, you are showing your naivity.
For every 1 race car we work on, there is 5 DE cars we work on. We go to the track, and provide support to customers that are attending the DE's.
Explain to me a) what you mean by patience and b) how it comes into play. What it means is that I have seen both camps of DE drivers, the ones that stagnate, and the ones that strive to go faster. Either one is fine by me.

Anyways, this is not the point. You need to stop preaching your "holier than thou" gospel to every one on here. People are free to do what they want with their cars. If they are putting rollbars and harnesses in street cars, then let them have it if it gets your jollies off. However, DONT bash them because they want to mod their car before they go to the track, because you will find them in KP LONG before you finally reach that level.

[marakka]

Yalll got kitchen patrol over there? Fuckin sucks.

[rwh11385]

If you are constantly limited by your car, how are you going to get faster?

hmmmmmmm....

[Skafrog]

right, answer the question.
Either way, I have said my peace. Go make fun of people :)

[marakka]

You two and Will's brother need to get together and all have merry little happy e-sex.

[Skafrog]

Will's brother? Who is that

[marakka]

The other thing that shot of Will's dads penis before Will......

[PeaveyBassist]

lol you guys are never gonna drop that. Robby, they think my bro is gay even though he isnt. But whatever. Heeter, if you drive at the limit of your car, you cant go any faster ;)

Will

[marakka]

We don't think it..... we know it. Its Dan's wife that said it.... and personally I beleive her. I understand you are in denial about it Will... but you'll understand one day when he touches yer no no happy place with his hoo hoo dilly.