New toy/project, vintage goodness...

[dcig]

I've been programing this machine for ages, and even help the PO with his newer MyCenter 2 (his is enclosed), but the replacement is a 1991 using FANUC System Om which is brushless AC (mine is 24v DC). Know all about crashes, over travel etc lol. Its a DC machine using FANUC System 6Mb. The machine maker is a Kitamura MyCenter 2, build date 1981.

Since my friend has owned it (he bought it in 07 or 08) it has had the spindle motor rewound, new old stock x servo, y has been rewound, all the spindle bearings have been replaced, all new air solenoid, and I found a new old stock spindle drive that was installed. It has 19kb of bubble memory, and punch tape encoder (that was removed yes ago). It has drip feed capability and does rigid tapping

I cut my teeth on this thing, self taught in MasterCam, older versions of SolidWorks, and over the years have become fairly fluent in g-code.

Since it's old, there's not much for OBD. I have gone through the parameters, reset the internal clock etc. I have found there's a mr1 fault on a channel using an o-scope. (Machine ready handshake between the NC and servo sides)

So did you check the batteries if it has any? It sounds like all the major components have been fixed or repaired from what I've read. Maybe look for a connection that's loose.

Because you use the cnc and program it a lot that just means it had little downtime it seems like. So you or the PO haven't had to deal with issues which in turn you start to learn the machine over time. Think of all the E30's you work on, you understand how everything is supposed to operate together in order to work. CNC's are the same way, they are a system that all parts need to be in working order in order to operate. I would spend the time and go through and clean it and check everything in process. Get two things done at once and hopefully fix anything else along the way.

Also just curious, have you tried running a program? will it load? Does that machine use a post-processor?

[mrsleeve]

Guy in the shop across from me is a machinery maintenance man. His shop is full of mills and lathes that he’s bought to fix and sell. I want one so bad

Stuff like that around where I live sells right quick and in a hurry, normally with in mins of being on the list or local F/B garage sale pages. Or with in a couple days of hitting the pawn shop or used tool guy. Normally for a much bigger price tag than you can find in the Mid west or the NE, a friend of a friend put his clapped out late 40s era manual bridgeport up for sale to help pay for a mid 80s Matsuura, and got enough of a biding war between 2 idiots locally to pay for the new machine and most of the shipping.... That said the Matsuura needed a few repairs so he got it dirt cheap from some little machine shop outside of Chicago and had been sitting for a while.... But still I was told for less than 2 invested hes got a full on 3 axis CnC up and running in his shop.... Lucky bastard.

[ForcedFirebird]

So did you check the batteries if it has any? It sounds like all the major components have been fixed or repaired from what I've read. Maybe look for a connection that's loose.

Because you use the cnc and program it a lot that just means it had little downtime it seems like. So you or the PO haven't had to deal with issues which in turn you start to learn the machine over time. Think of all the E30's you work on, you understand how everything is supposed to operate together in order to work. CNC's are the same way, they are a system that all parts need to be in working order in order to operate. I would spend the time and go through and clean it and check everything in process. Get two things done at once and hopefully fix anything else along the way.

Also just curious, have you tried running a program? will it load? Does that machine use a post-processor?

I am way past lodaing programs, resets, batteries. Again, this machine has been my buddy for 11 or 12yr. It has been down for almost 3yr. Ran fine, stopped one day. I don't do production machining, I always used it to make small runs of automobile parts in exchange for programing it to do massiveGoproduction. Barter system. It will run a program, all axis move proper, the spindle just won't initiate. Manual movements are fine, and as long as I don't have any spindle commands, it will reach the m30 (program end). In short the spindle will not rotate or orient (has and optical spindle orientation to tool change) everything else is100% working. I can move magazine up/down, home the Machine out, input offsets etc.

As the old saying goes "spindle isn't turning I ain't earning"

[dcig]

No worries man I'm just trying to get more info to see if I can help diagnose this. Knowing this I feel its a way different problem than I originally thought. Does it error when you have a spindle command in the gcode?

What about a tool change, does it run that command normally?

Does your gcode tell you any information about the program, machine, pc, anything?

A thought, comparing the gcode (if you have it) from when it was running to see if the gcode is any different.

[dcig]

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc/30223-1981-kitamura-mycenter-2-w-fanuc-6m.html

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/older-kitamura-dc-spindle-motor-problem-228660/

Idk if these are of any help

[MrBurgundy]

My dad has a shop that retrofits and manufactures CNC machines

Let me know if you need anything for it, or have any questions.

Fanuc is good shit

[ForcedFirebird]

No worries man I'm just trying to get more info to see if I can help diagnose this. Knowing this I feel its a way different problem than I originally thought. Does it error when you have a spindle command in the gcode?

What about a tool change, does it run that command normally?

Does your gcode tell you any information about the program, machine, pc, anything?

A thought, comparing the gcode (if you have it) from when it was running to see if the gcode is any different.

g-code is the basic set of movement instructions, has nothing to do with the machine logic itself. It says in short "go to x1.234, y1.234, z1.234: move z down 1.234 at 3 inches per minute until x=2" etc etc.


It will not tool change since the spindle won't rotate. The spindle must be in 1 of 2 orientations 180° apart to catch the notches in the tool holder.


The machine is too old to have OBD (on board diagnostics), it's much like the e30 ECU and will only tell you if something is completely missing.


Basically the motherboard sends a signal to the I/O board (input/output) which in turn relays that to the spindle board to initiate the spindle drive. Once that has happened the signal changes and is "sent back" to the motherboard and says "hey I'm imitated and ready for a command" (A/C signal from the two components combined should look very specific). Well, the signal going from the I/O to the spindle drive is malfunctioning. I checked this with an o-scope and the two signals combined (aka handshake) does not look like that expected signal the I/O to the motherboard is looking for. So, the spindle drive never "turns on".

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc...-fanuc-6m.html

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/older-kitamura-dc-spindle-motor-problem-228660/

Idk if these are of any help

I have been a member on those boards for some time, here are a couple threads I started...

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc/288590-mastercam-machinist-posts.html#post1796026

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/issues-fanuc-6m-312671/

My dad has a shop that retrofits and manufactures CNC machines

Let me know if you need anything for it, or have any questions.

Fanuc is good shit

I would love some help! I have contacted several repair services and they either require a HUGE yearly subscription payment, or have tech's that are afar and would be required to provide all travel expenses on top of the hourly repair (most have an 8hr minimum!).


If you could PM me his info, I wouldn't mind getting a quote on a retrofit, but my biggest problem is this is a D/C machine and the servos/motors would all have to be changed. D/C was phased out on CNC machines in about 1985. If it were an A/C machine, replacement parts are cheap/plentiful.



On the plus side of having D/C is that any of the motors can be re-wound for cheap locally.




It's really too bad I haven't been able to get this thing running. It holds +/- .0002" all day long. I put a tenth indicator on it and moved the manual jog one click in .0000 mode and it moved exactly on tenth. It also has box ways instead of dovetail on the Z, so it's incredibly stable.

[MrBurgundy]

g-code is the basic set of movement instructions, has nothing to do with the machine logic itself. It says in short "go to x1.234, y1.234, z1.234: move z down 1.234 at 3 inches per minute until x=2" etc etc.


It will not tool change since the spindle won't rotate. The spindle must be in 1 of 2 orientations 180° apart to catch the notches in the tool holder.


The machine is too old to have OBD (on board diagnostics), it's much like the e30 ECU and will only tell you if something is completely missing.


Basically the motherboard sends a signal to the I/O board (input/output) which in turn relays that to the spindle board to initiate the spindle drive. Once that has happened the signal changes and is "sent back" to the motherboard and says "hey I'm imitated and ready for a command" (A/C signal from the two components combined should look very specific). Well, the signal going from the I/O to the spindle drive is malfunctioning. I checked this with an o-scope and the two signals combined (aka handshake) does not look like that expected signal the I/O to the motherboard is looking for. So, the spindle drive never "turns on".








I have been a member on those boards for some time, here are a couple threads I started...

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc/288590-mastercam-machinist-posts.html#post1796026

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/issues-fanuc-6m-312671/

I would love some help! I have contacted several repair services and they either require a HUGE yearly subscription payment, or have tech's that are afar and would be required to provide all travel expenses on top of the hourly repair (most have an 8hr minimum!).


If you could PM me his info, I wouldn't mind getting a quote on a retrofit, but my biggest problem is this is a D/C machine and the servos/motors would all have to be changed. D/C was phased out on CNC machines in about 1985. If it were an A/C machine, replacement parts are cheap/plentiful.



On the plus side of having D/C is that any of the motors can be re-wound for cheap locally.




It's really too bad I haven't been able to get this thing running. It holds +/- .0002" all day long. I put a tenth indicator on it and moved the manual jog one click in .0000 mode and it moved exactly on tenth. It also has box ways instead of dovetail on the Z, so it's incredibly stable.

I'll PM you his email.

He's a real smart dude when it comes to this stuff.

[ForcedFirebird]

I'll PM you his email.

He's a real smart dude when it comes to this stuff.

You aren't kidding! He made some great suggestions for diagnostics. We chatted for a bit n the phone, then asked me to email him some pics...immediately called back and said "that thing is OLD!" lol.


He then made some great suggestions for retrofitting, and ultimately I may end up retrofitting an A/C spindle motor and using a VFD and interface it with the machine logic so that the NC controller will be able to vary the spindle speed.


More complicated than what I was hoping for, but going to check a few more things he suggested. Thanks again MrBurgundy :)

[MrBurgundy]

You aren't kidding! He made some great suggestions for diagnostics. We chatted for a bit n the phone, then asked me to email him some pics...immediately called back and said "that thing is OLD!" lol.


He then made some great suggestions for retrofitting, and ultimately I may end up retrofitting an A/C spindle motor and using a VFD and interface it with the machine logic so that the NC controller will be able to vary the spindle speed.


More complicated than what I was hoping for, but going to check a few more things he suggested. Thanks again MrBurgundy :)

No problem!

[dcig]

You aren't kidding! He made some great suggestions for diagnostics. We chatted for a bit n the phone, then asked me to email him some pics...immediately called back and said "that thing is OLD!" lol.


He then made some great suggestions for retrofitting, and ultimately I may end up retrofitting an A/C spindle motor and using a VFD and interface it with the machine logic so that the NC controller will be able to vary the spindle speed.


More complicated than what I was hoping for, but going to check a few more things he suggested. Thanks again MrBurgundy :)

Not really, I can give you a run down. The AC Spindle and VFD is exactly how I set mine up. It interfaces with mach3 to control the spindle RPM.

But I don't have high end equipment. It was a budget build.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[ForcedFirebird]

Not really, I can give you a run down. The AC Spindle and VFD is exactly how I set mine up. It interfaces with mach3 to control the spindle RPM.

The spindle motors and drive isn't the issue, it's interfacing it with the curren NC controller that will take some time/thought.

[dcig]

The spindle motors and drive isn't the issue, it's interfacing it with the curren NC controller that will take some time/thought.

Ahh my mistake. Your comment read to me as though you knew how to do it, next step was getting the correct equipment.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[ForcedFirebird]

&uck yeah!!!!!

https://youtu.be/6ijNmY0znes

[LJ851]

&uck yeah!!!!!


https://youtu.be/6ijNmY0znes

DUDE !!!!!

I am so happy for you! What was the culprit?