Flint Michigan poisoned water supply (not spam)

[5Toes]

everything Ive hear don NPR is that the city of Flint was taking water out of the flint river and initially was not treating it at all. supposedly they were told by state government to wait a year and take samples of the water at people's homes so they can determine how to treat the water and with what amount of chemicals. the EPA countered that that is a terrible idea and basically unheard of.

So I still believe the flint river water is just corrosive/lead contaminated to begin with. Also the Flint water district records are so poor they don't really know which houses have water mains (or whatever they're called) that contain lead based products.

Whichever angle you view it from the city of Flint is under fire. id like to see some water samples tested that are taken directly from the flint river.

[mrsleeve]

or a dupont product??????

Some of the best products GM has ever built quality wise came out of Flint Assembly

[Stanley Rockafella]

TL; DR

dont' buy a GM

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Such bullshit. It's ridiculous how cash is put at a higher value than life.

That's politics for ya

[Wschnitz]

My favorite part of the situation is the county/city charging residents $50 plus usage still for this unusable water.

[graveshaker]

My kids live in Saginaw like you and this scares me. Michigan has had so much industry and the EPA getting a handy and turning a blind eye is scary. Saginaw has had a ton of GM industry lets hope they have been testing the water there. Mine comes from two wells on my property and both were tested prior to purchasing the home.

You're right.

[graveshaker]

And the big kicker, they still charge residents for the tainted water and send shutoff notices to non payers for the useless water.

[ST1G]

The water supply isn't great, so they treat it and chlorinate it to clean it up. The added treatment makes it more corrosive. The more corrosive water corrodes the existing water supply infrastructure faster. That infrastructure has lead solder to seal joints and fittings and cast iron pipes. Individual houses may also have lead solder and/or lead pipes. Lead solder leads to higher lead content, the cast iron leads to more oxidation (rust) and discoloration.

From what I've heard a film builds up on the pipes and when the person in charge of the Flint water supply over chlorinated the water which broke down the film, and started to eat into the pipes.

[M-technik-3]

My kids live in Saginaw like you and this scares me. Michigan has had so much industry and the EPA getting a handy and turning a blind eye is scary. Saginaw has had a ton of GM industry lets hope they have been testing the water there. Mine comes from two wells on my property and both were tested prior to purchasing the home.

[McGyver]

The side of the story I have not heard, however is WHY THE WATER HAS SUCH HIGH LEAD CONTENT IN THE FIRST PLACE??? I suspect GM dumped alot of chemicals in the Flint River, but I dont really know...

The water supply isn't great, so they treat it and chlorinate it to clean it up. The added treatment makes it more corrosive. The more corrosive water corrodes the existing water supply infrastructure faster. That infrastructure has lead solder to seal joints and fittings and cast iron pipes. Individual houses may also have lead solder and/or lead pipes. Lead solder leads to higher lead content, the cast iron leads to more oxidation (rust) and discoloration.

[5Toes]

And now the water is chlorinated way too much, so theres that risk too. They just cant get it right.. to add to that they also denied independent doctor's and scientists's studies and persisted to tell the public the water is safe. They down played lead poisoning on children as well. Its a giant mess.

The side of the story I have not heard, however is WHY THE WATER HAS SUCH HIGH LEAD CONTENT IN THE FIRST PLACE??? I suspect GM dumped alot of chemicals in the Flint River, but I dont really know...

[McGyver]

I can understand your view point from looking at the situation from the outside.

I hope my edit clarified that I was only discussing the sequence of events that led to the accident and who should be responsible for allowing the problem to happen in the first place.

I not talking about how the accident was handled AFTER it was known what was happening. It's obvious that covering up the issue, doctoring reports/test results, and lying to the people should definitely be grounds for criminal charges.

[graveshaker]

From what I've seen on TV and read here, the whole situation is really terrible and I feel bad for the residents of Flint. Someone should be held accountable, but it is more complicated than just holding a single person responsible. Here are some of my thoughts about why this is a complicated issue:

1) The Flint River would have been a viable water supply if it had not been polluted for "a hundred years". Should GM or DuPont be held responsible for creating the mess in the first place? Or the government for not regulating the industry? Or the people for not forcing the government to regulate?

2) Flint was in financial crisis. Why didn't the voters put responsible public servants into office? If they weren't in crisis, there would not have been cost savings measures and the water supply wouldn't have been changed.

3) The water distribution system in Flint is antiquated at best, but it appears to be using obsolete materials. Where was the push to fix the water distribution system? Who is that on, regulators, elected officials, the voters? Why didn't they at least line the water system? The City of Richmond is lining our sewers as a stop-gap for having to completely replace our 100-200 year old system. The same type of solution is available for water supply.

4) They changed their water supply to save money. They would never have been allowed to use water from their own river if there was no way to treat the water to make it safe. Who reviewed and approved the process to treat the water?

5) It sounds like although the water was more corrosive, it was still in acceptable limits for drinking. It sounds like the problem was the more corrosive water was breaking down the materials in the existing infrastructure and that's how it becomes toxic. Who was responsible for oversight?

6) Finally, Michael Moore is a sensationalist that will ride on the coattails of any disaster to stay relevant through manipulating facts. Even if he did make a good point, I don't trust his self-serving agenda.

So yeah, based on my limited knowledge, I have no idea who to blame. I just hope the people get the help they need.

I can understand your view point from looking at the situation from the outside. Here's the thing, everyone including the Governor knew about the toxic levels in the flint river. The Governor promised the residents that it could be treated with chlorine. He paid for and selected a testing facility to test the treated water and lied about it's purity. After many complaints of the water smelling like a swimming pool a third party tester was done and the ugly truth started to be reveled.
What you are now seeing on the media is not the whole story. Governor Snyder has been caught in so many lies about this water crises over the two year period it's hard to keep track.
Governor Synder had the final say on all matters.
This is an early news report. It gets worse and worse

[McGyver]

From what I've seen on TV and read here, the whole situation is really terrible and I feel bad for the residents of Flint. Someone should be held accountable, but it is more complicated than just holding a single person responsible. Here are some of my thoughts about why this is a complicated issue:

1) The Flint River would have been a viable water supply if it had not been polluted for "a hundred years". Should GM or DuPont be held responsible for creating the mess in the first place? Or the government for not regulating the industry? Or the people for not forcing the government to regulate?

2) Flint was in financial crisis. Why didn't the voters put responsible public servants into office? If they weren't in crisis, there would not have been cost savings measures and the water supply wouldn't have been changed.

3) The water distribution system in Flint is antiquated at best, but it appears to be using obsolete materials. Where was the push to fix the water distribution system? Who is that on, regulators, elected officials, the voters? Why didn't they at least line the water system? The City of Richmond is lining our sewers as a stop-gap for having to completely replace our 100-200 year old system. The same type of solution is available for water supply.

4) They changed their water supply to save money. They would never have been allowed to use water from their own river if there was no way to treat the water to make it safe. Who reviewed and approved the process to treat the water?

5) It sounds like although the water was more corrosive, it was still in acceptable limits for drinking. It sounds like the problem was the more corrosive water was breaking down the materials in the existing infrastructure and that's how it becomes toxic. Who was responsible for oversight?

Finally, Michael Moore is a sensationalist that will ride on the coattails of any disaster to stay relevant through manipulating facts. Even if he did make a good point, I don't trust his self-serving agenda.

So yeah, based on my limited knowledge, I have no idea who to blame. I just hope the people get the help they need.

*EDIT*

I just thought of 2 more people who could share blame.

6) The designers of the water supply system provided a design that has failed. The one is difficult because their blame depends on the design life of the system, the intended water supply, the maintenance of the system, and the demand on the system. However, they designed and built a system that was supposed to be safe for the public, but inherent safety problems based on their choice of materials and construction methods. Should they be blamed?

7) Last, should the City of Flint be blamed because they didn't properly maintain the entire water system. (This is different from their responsibility to repair/replace the aging system and is also different from their responsibility to supply safe water)

All of this aside, a group of people may also be responsible for the criminal action of trying to cover up this accident and that's a different conversation. (Accident because the intent was to save money, not to poison people.) I'm just trying to illustrate that it is difficult to assign blame for an engineering accident like this when the original intent was to benefit people. If anyone is interested, there is a good book I recently read called, "To Engineer Is Human". It discusses the nuances of all of the contributing factors to an engineering accident and how we can learn from them.

[graveshaker]

And this is from a local hospital. The only escape is driving an hour north or an hour south.