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    #16
    We don't need no stinking fire suits!
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    908? 907?
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      #17
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        #18
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        Gurney bubble, baby!
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          #19
          1966, GT40s 1-2-3
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          I'll quit with the famous #6, the car that won in 1968 and 1969. The same car. ...I think it was #9 in 68.
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            #20
            Originally posted by LateFan View Post

            I forgot this little trivia, that they had to be licensed, since they were sports cars with lights and two seats and a trunk. This is a famous GTO, but light colored...? Could it be that pale green Phil Hill GTO?
            i think that car was #15. a google search of 250 gto and 20 brings up a red car.
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              #21
              ah.

              The wiki tells me that in 1962 that was the UDT / Laystall Racing Team from the UK, driven by Innes Ireland (wow) and Masten Gregory. DNF though.

              Crazy they could do that race with only two drivers.

              Oh, wait.. here's another link...
              http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-06-24-020.jpg

              GTO #3505 Ireland / Gregory, pale green
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              ANOTHER link says it's Sterling Moss, not Phil Hill (derp derp) and it's #3505, but seen with it's #15 here...
              http://blog.caranddriver.com/stirlin...expensive-car/
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              That color....eeeee....

              So I have my guys all mixed up - Moss was injured at Goodwood in the spring of '62 and never raced again, and never raced this car.

              Mystery solved. I'd like to know the story behind that color. I think all but two or three are red.

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                #22
                I can answer some things! :D

                First, that's not a Porsche, it's a Ferrari! It's a 365 P2 with a special body by Drogo. It was nicknamed the "white elephant" for obvious reasons.

                Second, #15 is a different car. That livery (with the tartan stripe) was a trademark of the British Racing Partnership, founded by Stirling Moss's father and his racing manager. He never drove the car because of the accident like you mentioned. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that looks like it's a Series 2 which is extremely rare even by 250 standards.

                Also, my father worked on those two 365GTB/4 Daytonas in that one picture.

                Also also, I think it's an absolute tragedy how underappreciated the MkIV GT40 is. It makes the regular GT40 look like a Flintstones-mobile by comparison.
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                  #23
                  Originally posted by ELVA164 View Post
                  I can answer some things! :D

                  First, that's not a Porsche, it's a Ferrari! It's a 365 P2 with a special body by Drogo. It was nicknamed the "white elephant" for obvious reasons.

                  No way!


                  Second, #15 is a different car. That livery (with the tartan stripe) was a trademark of the British Racing Partnership, founded by Stirling Moss's father and his racing manager. He never drove the car because of the accident like you mentioned. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that looks like it's a Series 2 which is extremely rare even by 250 standards.

                  That's who I think UDT / Laystall is, the BRP. Can there be two in that color?? I didn't think so. Did you see this bit?...
                  "The GTO (Moss's car) did race at the Circuit de la Sarthe in ’62 with Innes Ireland and Masten Gregory sharing driving duties, but it didn’t finish, dropping out of the race with electrical problems after 165 laps. Ireland went on to pilot 3505GT to a win the 1962 Tourist Trophy at Goodwood, and the car also captured a few race and hillclimb titles over the next couple of years."


                  Also, my father worked on those two 365GTB/4 Daytonas in that one picture.

                  NO WAY!!

                  Also also, I think it's an absolute tragedy how underappreciated the MkIV GT40 is. It makes the regular GT40 look like a Flintstones-mobile by comparison.

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                    #24
                    The Mark IV got bumped because of a rule change, correct? 427 no longer allowed, so they went back to the Mark I chassis with the 289 / 302? Prototypes could only be 3 liter, with sports cars 5 liter, as long as you built 5o of them. Well, they had built a lot of Mark I GT40s by then, which led to the 68 and 69 wins.

                    Then they changed the rules again after the 68 and 69 wins, Porsche found a way to take advantage of the minimum number of cars produced with 5 liters, and the 917 dominated until they were outlawed as well.

                    The Mark IV always seemed way bigger and more slab-sided to me when I was younger, and I was surprised to learn that it was actually lighter! Then a bigger roll cage was added, which killed the weight advantage.

                    Also, I think my bias is partly because that's the car that broke in half and killed Ken Miles, which has always pissed me off.

                    But yes, amazing car. Foyt-Gurney!

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                    EDIT - Also, wasn't there something about Ford getting out of race team management after they have proved their point with the Mark IV? The team went to John Wyer, who went back to the Lola-based chassis...is that right?

                    He brought with him Gulf Oil sponsorship, so we have the famous Gulf blue GT40s. Porsche hired him after that, and he brought Gulf blue to the 917s, although it was the Porsche family-sponsored red & white car that won. Wyer won some Spas / Daytonas / Sebrings in Gulf blue 917s I think.
                    Last edited by LateFan; 06-20-2016, 10:33 PM.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by LateFan View Post
                      The Mark IV got bumped because of a rule change, correct? 427 no longer allowed, so they went back to the Mark I chassis with the 289 / 302? Prototypes could only be 3 liter, with sports cars 5 liter, as long as you built 5o of them. Well, they had built a lot of Mark I GT40s by then, which led to the 68 and 69 wins.

                      Yep, the French couldn't have us ruining their party that thoroughly so they just outlawed everything...they thought.

                      Then they changed the rules again after the 68 and 69 wins, Porsche found a way to take advantage of the minimum number of cars produced with 5 liters, and the 917 dominated until they were outlawed as well.

                      An (ultimately, after multiple deaths) impressive response to a seemingly unimportant loophole.

                      The Mark IV always seemed way bigger and more slab-sided to me when I was younger, and I was surprised to learn that it was actually lighter! Then a bigger roll cage was added, which killed the weight advantage.

                      I actually find this facet of the MkIV design particularly impressive; it was the first race car with a purpose-built and designed-in roll structure. Definitely a step in the right direction even though it added over 300 pounds. Obviously they could afford it if Sebring and Le Mans were any indication.

                      Also, I think my bias is partly because that's the car that broke in half and killed Ken Miles, which has always pissed me off.

                      Yeah, the J-car accident was tragic for sure. It's obviously splitting hairs, but the MkIV was developed further from J-car spec. A stronger honeycomb chassis, revised aerodynamics (reducing lift), and the roll cage were some changes. Too late, of course.

                      But yes, amazing car. Foyt-Gurney!

                      EDIT - Also, wasn't there something about Ford getting out of race team management after they have proved their point with the Mark IV? The team went to John Wyer, who went back to the Lola-based chassis...is that right?

                      Yes, Ford's new car was then useless and like you say they'd make their point with the MkI/II well enough. Wyer began taking over with development of the J-car.

                      He brought with him Gulf Oil sponsorship, so we have the famous Gulf blue GT40s. Porsche hired him after that, and he brought Gulf blue to the 917s, although it was the Porsche family-sponsored red & white car that won. Wyer won some Spas / Daytonas / Sebrings in Gulf blue 917s I think.
                      Interested in vintage cars? Ever thought about racing one? Info, photos, videos, and more can be found at www.michaelsvintageracing.com!

                      Elva Courier build thread here!

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                        #26
                        Also, it's worth noting that the 1967 victory is the only all-American win in Le Mans history! (Manufacturer, country of manufacture, drivers, team, engine, and tires)
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                          #27
                          "It's obviously splitting hairs, but the MkIV was developed further from J-car spec. A stronger honeycomb chassis, revised aerodynamics (reducing lift), and the roll cage were some changes."

                          I didn't know this - interesting!


                          So this is the J-car test car? The Mk IV is radically different.
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                          They even tried a breadvan!
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                          The great Ken Miles...
                          British WWII tank driver, motorcycle racer, race car mechanic, engineer, and driver. He won the '66 Daytona, Sebring, and would have won Le Mans but the staged 1-2-3 finishing photo gave the win to Amon-McLaren. He helped Carroll Shelby develop the Cobra, the GT40, and the GT350 Mustang.
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                            #28
                            I still can't really believe that finish. Toyota might have dominated the whole race, but those last 6 minutes really counted.
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                              #29
                              Yeah, that finish was a pretty big point of contention back in the day. The main argument for the tiebreaker was the McLaren car started farther back, so they actually traveled a greater distance.

                              I would have liked Toyota to win. It was 25 years since the only other Japanese overall win (787B) and they were obviously the class of the field.
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                                #30
                                fuck the race! this thread is a total history lesson! school is in session and i have my feet on the desk. 8)
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