Gun Thread

[mrsleeve]

^

I would rather have the kinetic energy dumped from the big heavy and slow moving 45 Vs the high speed low drag, hole punching 9mm. There is a reason the brits commissioned John Browning to deliver a ACP in 45cal

[ParsedOut]

^

I would rather have the kinetic energy dumped from the big heavy and slow moving 45 Vs the high speed low drag, hole punching 9mm. There is a reason the brits commissioned John Browning to deliver a ACP in 45cal

Did you happen to read the link I posted? I know it's a lot. Regarding kinetic energy...a gunshot is reported to feel like a "punch". The myth that a .45 is considerably different than 9mm is just that. Using a commission from the UK at the turn of the 20th century doesn't really hold up today. With that said, I'm no ballistic expert, just stating what I've researched. :D

[phreshkid]

9mm is typically cheaper than .40, but price becomes negligible when you start getting into the better 9mm rounds.

IDK, No one said this will be my last gun. It is simply my first. I'm sure I'll own a few more by this year's end. A P226 is calling my name. I'll shoot an XD this weekend but they don't look to be all that different from a Glock.

I will likely turn the G19 into an EDC gun, but only carry when I'm in Long Beach, around the docks and container yards. Those places get sketchy as hell, and I often deal with large sums of cash. A defensive handgun seems like a good idea, though I hope to never need it.

[xAZxE30x]

G19 will be a great first gun. I have a Glock 23 and I don't notice much recoil difference between anything else I own. Even my M&p45c is fairly similar

my form 1 was denied as of this morning :/ .. but now I am part of a class action when that goes down!

[mrsleeve]

Did you happen to read the link I posted? I know it's a lot. Regarding kinetic energy...a gunshot is reported to feel like a "punch". The myth that a .45 is considerably different than 9mm is just that. Using a commission from the UK at the turn of the 20th century doesn't really hold up today. With that said, I'm no ballistic expert, just stating what I've researched. :D

Ummm you are aware of the reasons behind why the Brits wanted/needed the 45acp right??? I am fairly sure the laws of physics have not changed much since then. :) I would prefer to have that same capability if I ever needed to use my weapon. If I ever need more than 9 round of 45acp or 17 with a mag change to extricate my self form a situation I fucked up really bad in the 1st place. Also if the 9mm is all that, why is the US military dumping the 92fs and in the contracting and development stages of a new cross branch side arm chambered in what........... Oh yeah 45acp ;)

Big heavy and slow has to impart energy into the target, and expand hopefully with out over penetration and dump all of its energy into the target big heavy and slow has a much better chance at doing this.

[ParsedOut]

Ummm you are aware of the reasons behind why the Brits wanted/needed the 45acp right??? I am fairly sure the laws of physics have not changed much since then. :) I would prefer to have that same capability if I ever needed to use my weapon. If I ever need more than 9 round of 45acp or 17 with a mag change to extricate my self form a situation I fucked up really bad in the 1st place. Also if the 9mm is all that, why is the US military dumping the 92fs and in the contracting and development stages of a new cross branch side arm chambered in what........... Oh yeah 45acp ;)

Big heavy and slow has to impart energy into the target, and expand hopefully with out over penetration and dump all of its energy into the target big heavy and slow has a much better chance at doing this.

I understand all of that, what I'm saying is that the "stopping power" of 45acp is WAY over exaggerated. No pistol round will stop anyone without a central nervous system direct hit. Dimension wise your .45 doesn't cover significantly more ground than a .38 (9mm) caliber projectile. Sure, there is more kinetic energy transfer, but it's not like being punched by Mike Tyson, it's like a 170lb hipster giving you his best shot.

In addition, you know as well as I do that the military is restricted to ball ammo. A fast moving 9mm FMJ has a tendency to punch through while a slow moving 45 FMJ is less likely. In the real world of JHP defensive ammo, the differences are not worth the capacity tradeoff. Your whole argument about "if x rounds aren't enough I shouldn't be there anyway" is akin to the democrats telling you how many rounds you should have. Anyone who has been in a real fire fight (we both know some) will tell you that you never have enough so why start out with less?

Oh well, the caliber debate has been going on for ages and you've made up your mind as have I. We'll let it go with that ehh? :D

[Vedubin01]

I keed I keed!

[Vedubin01]

A case of "Laws for Thee but Not for Me"

http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/23/gun-control-activist-who-swore-he-forgot-he-was-packing-heat-at-school-gets-lenient-sentence/

Back in February, a Buffalo, N.Y. community activist who pushed for a highly restrictive 2013 gun control law (SAFE ACT) was arrested for — wait for it — carrying a gun illegally at a public elementary school.

The wheels of criminal justice have now slowly, slowly churned to completion. And wouldn’t you know it? The judge in the case has now found it in his heart to give the heat-packing activist, Dwayne Ferguson, a generously light sentence.

On Monday, Judge John L. Michalek sentenced Ferguson to 100 hours of community service and a conditional discharge, according to local CBS affiliate WIVB. Michalek also sternly ordered Ferguson to keep his nose clean.

If Ferguson completes the service requirements and stays out of trouble, he won’t have to answer for the substantially more serious charge initially levied against him: Possessing a firearm on schools grounds. (He initially was looking at two felony charges of criminal gun possession.)

[TimeMachinE30]

Reference stopping power, like said, unless placement to the brain box or spine....the stopping power is very exaggerated. .40 or 12 gauge. Obviously a hit from .50BMG or a howitzer for that matter will have stopping power, so in a way size does matter, but when talking pistol rounds or those smaller projectiles......folks don't fly back, fall down, keel over like we may see on the TV.

[mrsleeve]

More do as I say not as I do from the anti's not surprising at all dub. If that were any one of us we would be in jail for 3-7

I understand all of that, what I'm saying is that the "stopping power" of 45acp is WAY over exaggerated. No pistol round will stop anyone without a central nervous system direct hit. Dimension wise your .45 doesn't cover significantly more ground than a .38 (9mm) caliber projectile. Sure, there is more kinetic energy transfer, but it's not like being punched by Mike Tyson, it's like a 170lb hipster giving you his best shot.

In addition, you know as well as I do that the military is restricted to ball ammo. A fast moving 9mm FMJ has a tendency to punch through while a slow moving 45 FMJ is less likely. In the real world of JHP defensive ammo, the differences are not worth the capacity tradeoff. Your whole argument about "if x rounds aren't enough I shouldn't be there anyway" is akin to the democrats telling you how many rounds you should have. Anyone who has been in a real fire fight (we both know some) will tell you that you never have enough so why start out with less?

Oh well, the caliber debate has been going on for ages and you've made up your mind as have I. We'll let it go with that ehh? :D

Yes your points are valid, I dont deny them in the least. I like what I shoot, you like what you shoot.... The debate is never going to end with pros and cons to each caliber and we each make a choice about what might serve us better, I have wild life to contend with as well, but I also have a S&W X frame if I am going deep into the woods just in case as well....

[ParsedOut]

^ Big wildlife is a totally different ballgame. :D .500 magnum please.

[einhander]

Bears

[TeXJ]

You know if you get the g23 that you can get a 9mm barrel and mags. Now you can shoot both out of the same gun. You cant, however, get a g19 and then a .40 barrel.

[xAZxE30x]

but bear spray is the best option..............




kidding

[DER E30]

but bear spray is the best option..............




kidding

I would tend to think that a lead launcher is more effective...