Damn! I can't believe this!' Many dead' in Brazil plane crash

[Erick]

I'm assuming all of this based on a discussion I had with my father (if it wasn't clear by the beginning of my post). And either way, who is to prove me wrong? INFRAERO? Their "NTSB" system is only useful to laugh at in it's face. Remember the Fokker that crash landed right after take off because a thrust reverser went off right after take off?

They swore the black box caught the pilot making a martyr of himself saying that he "at least turned away from a school" before he crashed. Truth was he had no control of the plane whatsoever. The whole conversation on the black box was narrated on the media and the original footage was never released. Those who heard the black box swear it was nothing more but frantic and desperate cries for control of the plane.

You ask me how I would react if this happened in the United States. Aside the fact I feel horrible for any loss of lives (regardless under what country it occured), the only difference is that I think the United States would have a much better investigation carried out that would be available to the people.

Mind you, I am Brazilian, lived there for most of my life. I love my country. There are things about it that are in my culture and I will always think highly of Brazil for it. But you defend the system like "it's not so bad". Newsflash: it is.

[Maluco]

Speaking to my old man, who for my entire childhood flew for a business jet company based off that same airport, he claims that this was most likely an issue of pilot error. He does point out that the airport's infrastructure is basically obsolete in the present day, and there are many factors that might have contributed to the accident, but the bottom line is that airport is notorious for its conditions and pilots have dealt with it on a daily basis.

Besides, to give you an idea of the probability of pilot error, the building he crashed into is not at the end of the runway. It is to the left of the runway, so he had to have misused the brakes, applying rudder instead of the brakes. (Brakes are applied by pressing both rudder pedals at the same time... if only one is pressed effectively you're only using the rudder, which will yaw the plane to w/e direction you are pressing your foot down)

My father said that basically when you land, if in the first second you realize your wheels are hydroplaning, it will not get any better later on the runway. So the only option is to throttle up, pull up and do another approach. The pilot most likely never realized this until it was too late.

Ryan, I wish I could agree with you. Brazil is too buried in it's corruption for anything to be done. The "FAA" of Brazil has always been corrupt and serious problems have always been there, never coming to surface. When the first mid-air collision occured a few months ago, all these problems started being exposed, but in typical Brazilian fashion, the blame was thrown around between many different people and nothing was really done about it.

An accident in the US immedietly triggers change. Even at the lower scale. My father's bike was stolen from inside a parking garage last week (when control of who went in/out was pretty slack), and this week already getting in my parking garage is like trying to enter a nuclear facility. I live here, my car and both my bikes are registered with the community, and still I face a whole background check to get in.

Rarely is there a sole factor/reason for an air disaster. It's almost always a sequence of events to which even throughout could have been corrected or avoided. Your "Brasil is too buried in it's corruption for anything to be done" is quite a generalized statement. INFRAERO defintely needs to be investigated and actions need to be taken to revolutionize Brasil's air industry's infrastructure.

Blame being tossed around is hardly "typical Brasilian fashion". Last time I turned on my television, within seconds, I heard Americans tossing blame all over the place about all kinds of shit. Including a war that has affected to whole fucking globe!

I wonder how you would react if I was to comment in such a manner if this had happened here in the US.

the building he crashed into is not at the end of the runway. It is to the left of the runway, so he had to have misused the brakes, applying rudder instead of the brakes. (Brakes are applied by pressing both rudder pedals at the same time... if only one is pressed effectively you're only using the rudder, which will yaw the plane to w/e direction you are pressing your foot down)

You should join the NTSB. You already got shit all figured out.

[mtechnik]

True. like i was saying just pointing out.

Simmilar agencies in other countries just dont get that amount of exposure/publicity the Americans ones do

[atomic]

@ Atomic- the key word in your initial post is deffinitely "SEEMS"
Not looking to argue with you, but just felt the need to point that out.

Used as a figure of speech since the USA does have a department of public transportation safety board and takes every step to insure the safety of everyone on public transportation to the umtenth degree.

[Erick]

Speaking to my old man, who for my entire childhood flew for a business jet company based off that same airport, he claims that this was most likely an issue of pilot error. He does point out that the airport's infrastructure is basically obsolete in the present day, and there are many factors that might have contributed to the accident, but the bottom line is that airport is notorious for its conditions and pilots have dealt with it on a daily basis.

Besides, to give you an idea of the probability of pilot error, the building he crashed into is not at the end of the runway. It is to the left of the runway, so he had to have misused the brakes, applying rudder instead of the brakes. (Brakes are applied by pressing both rudder pedals at the same time... if only one is pressed effectively you're only using the rudder, which will yaw the plane to w/e direction you are pressing your foot down)

My father said that basically when you land, if in the first second you realize your wheels are hydroplaning, it will not get any better later on the runway. So the only option is to throttle up, pull up and do another approach. The pilot most likely never realized this until it was too late.

Ryan, I wish I could agree with you. Brazil is too buried in it's corruption for anything to be done. The "FAA" of Brazil has always been corrupt and serious problems have always been there, never coming to surface. When the first mid-air collision occured a few months ago, all these problems started being exposed, but in typical Brazilian fashion, the blame was thrown around between many different people and nothing was really done about it.

An accident in the US immedietly triggers change. Even at the lower scale. My father's bike was stolen from inside a parking garage last week (when control of who went in/out was pretty slack), and this week already getting in my parking garage is like trying to enter a nuclear facility. I live here, my car and both my bikes are registered with the community, and still I face a whole background check to get in.

[Maluco]

That is horrible that it was known that it was an issue before this. Hopefully this disaster is enough to shock them into actually doing something about it.

And the US isnt really much different. Often we need some horrible disaster to motivate ourselves to change.

You are absolutely right. Whether cutting corners to cut cost or pilots arrogance etc... I've watched pretty much all of discovery channels and national geographic channel's "Air Disaster" and "Moments from Disaster" and it reveals just how much these accidents could have been prevented.

[Ryan Stewart]

That is horrible that it was known that it was an issue before this. Hopefully this disaster is enough to shock them into actually doing something about it.

And the US isnt really much different. Often we need some horrible disaster to motivate ourselves to change.

[mtechnik]

Yeah happened to see that first on Univision last night. I was suprised that CNN & Headline News went ahead with it's regular programming (i think it was Anderson Cooper 360) and didnt put in a breaking news bulletin.
All plane disasters are terribly unfortunate.

@ Atomic- the key word in your initial post is deffinitely "SEEMS"
Not looking to argue with you, but just felt the need to point that out.

[Maluco]

Jesus Christ thats terrible, I feel sorry for all the families who suffered losses on that flight. :sad:

[browntown]

In Pakestan (sic), a man can get on a bus with an unsheathed survival knife with an 8-inch blade and nobody is going to pay him any mind.

In many states, including Oregon (except schools, courthouses, federal buildings, etc.) a non-concealed blade is perfectly legal. In the city I might get some looks, but if I venture 20 miles out into timber and farming country folks will complement my newest blade: a handmade puma olive wood fixed:

[stevofthahill]

Jesus Christ thats terrible, I feel sorry for all the families who suffered losses on that flight. :sad:

[delatlanta1281]

i think its that we value life more than fear death.

Suuuuuuure we do.... talk to Mike Vick, Benoit, OJ, The DC snipers, The copy cat sniper, Tim mcveigh, Eric Robert Rudolph, me for spending too muck time on the internets.
Right now I value sleep. Night!

[Erick]

i think its that we value life more than fear death.

Seeing some examples, I highly disagree. Some people flip over any little thing.

[atomic]

In Pakestan, a man can get on a bus with an unsheathed survival knife with an 8-inch blade and nobody is going to pay him any mind.

Thats why it seems that most from the middle east are such " nut jobs " too

[blunttech]

In most other countries the general public has a completely different attitude about dying. In our culture we are so afraid of death that if the news reported that there is a dangerous man on the loose stabbing people with a paper knife we would believe it according to the "better safe than sorry" clause in our Articles of Amercian Preservation.

In Pakestan, a man can get on a bus with an unsheathed survival knife with an 8-inch blade and nobody is going to pay him any mind.

i think its that we value life more than fear death.