baseball cards are a gyp

[jflip2002]

Like stolen bases, on base percentage, career batting average, slugging percentage, fielding percentage etc. All of which bonds excelled at. Not to mention all of his all star appearances, MVP's, National league player of the years, batting title, record for walks and on base percentage etc.

Only reason the babe wins is because he was an all star pitcher as well as the best hitter ever.

Babe Ruth also didnt play against "negros". There was the "Negro league". So how legitimate is his dominance? Take out all the players who are not white today, and youd have a shitty ass league, with someone putting babe ruth like numbers still.

So Id put Willie Mays #1, Barry Bonds #2, and numerous coul dbe at #3

[CleanAzzE30z]

agree to disagree. :)


Mariano

[jflip2002]

True. Im not even too passionate about baseball really lol. My team hasnt won the world series since I was 6 months old. So that doesnt even count (I was born in 84, so theres my team).

But yeah, Im just throwing THAT arguement out there lol.

[atomic]

This guy (http://www.peterose.com/) is still chastised for what he did which was illegal and my point is how is what Barry Bonds did any different in what he has done to acheive his batting record which also is illegal. IMHO it is probably (I know I will get burned for this) the race card that is keeping him from being chastised as well......... I am not saying anything about his race but rather MLB is probably affraid of what could become if they did go after him

[jflip2002]

How is he not be chastised for what he has done? Where was Hank aaron when Barry broke the record? Where was the commish? where was the celebration? No one on sports talk radio was excited. Everyone calls this the "steroid era", everyone says add an asterisk. I think he IS being chastised for what he did. And rightfully so, I might add.

[atomic]

How is he not be chastised for what he has done? Where was Hank aaron when Barry broke the record? Where was the commish? where was the celebration? No one on sports talk radio was excited. Everyone calls this the "steroid era", everyone says add an asterisk. I think he IS being chastised for what he did. And rightfully so, I might add.

MLB has turned a blind eye on steriods period and to me the league has lost all credability because of it, all that Barry Bonds has done in his career is null and void and should not exist in the record books because of it but since MLB will not go after him and others who have done "roids", that will likely never happen either.... Between that and when the players union had a strike which canceled the second part of the season some years back only because making millions a year was not enough dinero....:hitler:

[jflip2002]

Ok, making millions a year wasnt enough dineiro.... so making hundreds of millions wasnt enough for the owners? It goes both ways there.

Last I checked steroids dont help you see the strike zone. They dont help you judge a fly ball. They dont help you steal bases. They dont even hit the ball out of the park. There are tons of men stronger than bonds in the world, but they dont just step up to the plate and hit 756+ HRs.

[atomic]

Ok, making millions a year wasnt enough dineiro.... so making hundreds of millions wasnt enough for the owners? It goes both ways there.

Last I checked steroids dont help you see the strike zone. They dont help you judge a fly ball. They dont help you steal bases. They dont even hit the ball out of the park. There are tons of men stronger than bonds in the world, but they dont just step up to the plate and hit 756+ HRs.

[jflip2002]

[TwoJ's]

This guy (http://www.peterose.com/) is still chastised for what he did which was illegal and my point is how is what Barry Bonds did any different in what he has done to acheive his batting record which also is illegal. IMHO it is probably (I know I will get burned for this) the race card that is keeping him from being chastised as well......... I am not saying anything about his race but rather MLB is probably affraid of what could become if they did go after him

You may not realize that there are people who have actually tested positive for steroids. And they have been punished by the league.

Barry Bonds hasn't even tested positive. Ever. So there is no real proof that he did anything, only people's words.

[CleanAzzE30z]

You may not realize that there are people who have actually tested positive for steroids. And they have been punished by the league.

Barry Bonds hasn't even tested positive. Ever. So there is no real proof that he did anything, only people's words.

Look at him when he was with the Pirates, look at him now. Now use your skills (or lackthereof) of deducing. Logic wins here. Cmon man.



Mariano

[atomic]

Last I checked steroids dont help you see the strike zone. They dont help you judge a fly ball. They dont help you steal bases. They dont even hit the ball out of the park. There are tons of men stronger than bonds in the world, but they dont just step up to the plate and hit 756+ HRs.

No,.. but from what I remember when I took them it made you feel like you were unstoppable and anything could be achieved no matter how insane the feat was.

[TwoJ's]

Look at him when he was with the Pirates, look at him now. Now use your skills (or lackthereof) of deducing. Logic wins here. Cmon man.



Mariano

Speaking of lacking skills, re-read what I wrote. I was talking about how he had not been banned or disciplined by the league because he has not tested positive. I never said that I thought he never used performance enhancing drugs. I believe he did.

And also, I have plenty of knowledge in logic. I've studied it plenty. Cmon man.

Besides that, why is barry percieved as a villan while lance armstrong is a hero? There is as much or more evidence agianst lance than there is bonds, yet the public turns their "eye". Armstrong actually did test positive, as well as admitting he took drugs and blood doped in front of doctors and other witnesses in his hospital room.

People just jump on the wagon and hate barry. Most of whom don't know shit about what they're talkign about.

[atomic]

Your right I jumped on " the hate Barry Bonds bandwagon " early on in his career. Because of his attitude what a great role model ...

[jflip2002]

Who the fuck cares about his attitude or if hes a role model? I didnt know we were debating that. Otherwise youd put Sean Casey #1 all time, then Mark Grace or something. Barry Bonds has never been caught using steroids, but we know he did it. Kinda like OJ, MFer got off free, and we know he made a couple Pez Dispensers out of those two crackers.

Barrys fuckig head has grown. He has put on like 100 lbs since joining the league. His HR totals have been going UP towards the end of his career. When new steroid testing was implemented, he stopped cranking so many HRs, and missed the first half of the season. His trainer and best friend is in prison for distributing steroids. Former teammates, like the piece of shit Andy Van Slyke said he wa susing steroids. I mean theres so much evidence...... But he hasnt been caught, or suspended.

Even if Barry bonds IS caught eventually. Hes still #2 of all time. I say you take off 150 of his HRs, and I think thats MORE than what the steroids helped him hit. If you do that, he still has his 600 HRs, and hes still #2. Hell, knock him back down to 500 HRs, and hes sitll #2. I think you miss the point that his HRs dont have the impact on his all time ranking, like you are so hung up on.