thas right boyssss cheap ciggarrretteessssss

[CorvallisBMW]

. The problem is that the Dems are not trying to get people to stop smoking for the health of the kids, but rather trying to do what they always do, and that is raise tax dollars to support a larger government. So instead of charging the lower income population higher taxes on a product, that most can not do without, and with the proceeds from this giving their children healthcare coverage. Why do they just quit giving themselves raises and instead take that money and give free healthcare coverage to these kids instead ? All this bill does is charge people more money to in return give them healthcare coverage which would be another additional agency to the federal government.

I'm sorry, but which president was it that drove us in to record government spending AND record debt? Oh yeah, it was Bush, under a republican controlled congress. Those 'tax and spend democrats' sure are bad....

I don't know about you, but I bet 99% of Americans if polled would rather have health insurance than cheap cigs. The idea that they offset one another is pretty unfounded, I dare you to find someone who would put $0.65 ahead of their kids health.

[PiercedE30]

You guys need to find an "indian" reservation to buy tobacco on. I buy my skoal there and it's $3 less per can.

:rofl: :rofl:
I get my can of Grizzly for like 2.50.
:rofl: :rofl:

[xLibelle]

i like the part how bush's approval rating is down to like 16% now... he is the absolute WORST president the world has ever seen. Other presidents took it upon themselves to actaully remove themself once the going went sour. What does bush do? send more troops. ....doesnt matter, cheney is the driving force behind our idiot leader, we need to wait this out.

[Jean]

It's not going to happen. And I don't want it.

Why not ? It's not like medical care here in US is so great.... half of the doctors and nurses are complete fucking idiots anyway. It's same as in IT field, lots of people get into it because they see it as the "$$$" thing but have no "soul" or "common sense" or "knack" for it.

What's so bad about free medicare ? Isn't it working fine in other countries ?

[Massive Lee]

I enjoyed very much when Bushy boy said during his speech that health was private business, not government's stuff... Damn, I had to pinch myself to verify I was not having a nightmare. Nonetheless, he pointed straight at the problem in the US. Private practices are "cleaning-up" americans...

Yeah sure. Those who have money (lot's of it) will have immediate care. Those who don't have money will wait... forever, until they die. Is that he land of endless opportunities?

[ivo316]

Cigarretes here cost around US$ 2.00, you might think it's cheap, but when the minimum wage is taken into account, US$ 275.00 you see cigarretes are more expensive here, also you must think that with the 275.00 the guy must pay his rent, the cheapest apts. here go for 160.00 US$, so if you have around US$ 125.00 to spend on food, clothing, buses, and bills, you will see that smokes are REALLY expensive here.
This tells me that if the federal minimum wage in the US is US$ 982.8 (5.85 per hour), you would have to pay US$ 8.00 to make cigarretes as expensive as in Chile, and in this country 60% of the population smokes, and in the lower income level the percentage grows to 70 to 80%, price is not a deterrent to smoking, lots of people would rather smoke than eat.
It seems though that as the educational level rises, the percentage of smokers drops, so it sees the only cure t smoking is education, not higher taxes, takes just encourage smugglers to bring cheaper cigarretes from abroad. (I'm a smoker BTW) ;)

[Turf1600]

Why not ? It's not like medical care here in US is so great.... half of the doctors and nurses are complete fucking idiots anyway. It's same as in IT field, lots of people get into it because they see it as the "$$$" thing but have no "soul" or "common sense" or "knack" for it.

What's so bad about free medicare ? Isn't it working fine in other countries ?

????????????????????????????????????

Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!

Do you know why medical in houston is so good?

Competition!!

Without competition there is no advancement. There is no reason to do better than anyone else - because you can't charge more for it. Sure, shit is free in canada - but do you know how long it takes to get a dr's appointment? Shit is only quick if it's an emergency. WTF is the problem with having health insurance? Bottom line is people bitch and moan about taxes - dont want to spend the money on health insurance - then point fingers at the govt when they get type 55 diabetes because they eat like shit. Healthcare is a culture problem not a govt problem. Making it free is only a patch that will decrease the quality of care.

[Turf1600]

I enjoyed very much when Bushy boy said during his speech that health was private business, not government's stuff... Damn, I had to pinch myself to verify I was not having a nightmare. Nonetheless, he pointed straight at the problem in the US. Private practices are "cleaning-up" americans...

Yeah sure. Those who have money (lot's of it) will have immediate care. Those who don't have money will wait... forever, until they die. Is that he land of endless opportunities?

Lee - healthcare is WIDELY available. Poor people get medicaid. Elderly get medicare. Medicaid pays 100%!! Medicare only 80 - but cheap supplements are available. The poor DO NOT have to wait. It's the undereducated middle class that gets jammed. They all live paycheck to paycheck and are too short sighted to invest in health insurance before they become uninsurable.

[Jean]

????????????????????????????????????

Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!

Do you know why medical in houston is so good?

Competition!!

Without competition there is no advancement. There is no reason to do better than anyone else - because you can't charge more for it. Sure, shit is free in canada - but do you know how long it takes to get a dr's appointment? Shit is only quick if it's an emergency. WTF is the problem with having health insurance? Bottom line is people bitch and moan about taxes - dont want to spend the money on health insurance - then point fingers at the govt when they get type 55 diabetes because they eat like shit. Healthcare is a culture problem not a govt problem. Making it free is only a patch that will decrease the quality of care.

I've paid for health insurance for many years, been with many providers . I recently canceled it and just pay cash because the last few times I had to see a doctor or for pay medicine most of the shit came out of my pocket anyway. What's the fucking point ?

I don't know how the poor get their medical care but I know that even if I pay $100 a month for a PPO plan it's almost useless.

Don't even get me started on crappy dental care we get, jesus. I would rather save up, buy a round trip ticket to Russia and get a much better dental care for cash there instead.

[Turf1600]

Sounds you need to inform yourself about insurance. PPO's have deductables. That's what you're paying out of pocket. Once your deductable has been met, your PPO will cover usually between 75-100% of any procedure. Any PPO under 100% usually has a max out of pocket. Once that has been met, your insurance will pay 100%. Sounds like you are frustrated with high deductables. An HMO may be best for you. With an HMO you pay co-pays for everything. I have aetna HMO - I pay $20 per DR's visit, $100 per ER visit, and $40 per procedure (MRI, CT, ect). the only down side of an HMO is you have to choose from their list of accepted providers and once you need a procedure it may take a couple of days to get authorization from your insurance company. Many PPOs now require an auth as well - at least here in TX. Since you no longer have health insurance, a CT will cost you roughly $400 (without contrast), an MRI will be over 1K, and a PET CT (god forbid) would be in the 5K area. Your average ER visit WILL cost you between 2 and 4k without insurance. Better start saving up! Also, once you get diagnosed with something - you will be UNINSURABLE!!! Sign back up for insurance NOW. It is wise to get a dental PPO. It sounds like you have fallen victim to internet insurance sales. Educate yourself.

[Jscotty]

i like the part how bush's approval rating is down to like 16% now... he is the absolute WORST president the world has ever seen. Other presidents took it upon themselves to actaully remove themself once the going went sour.

Wrong.. the only president to ever resign was Nixon and that was because he was cold busted with his hand in the cookie jar. Prior to that he had a relatively moderate approval rating.

[M42Technik]

what are you guys paying for smokes in the US, were up to 12.50 a pack.

Holy balls. You should go to South Carolina sometime, $3.50 a pack, cheapest I know of in the states....

I smoke, but have never bought a pack

[Jean]

I've been looking for a better provider / plan. I've had Aetna with my previous employee, now I have to pay on my own. I kept a Blue Cross PPO dental, might give BC health insurance a try this time. I like the ability of a wider network with PPO compared to HMO, but the problem is not just the deductibles, it's with the prescriptions that sometimes for some reason aren't even covered afte meeting the deductible. I'll have to research this some more ...like you said.

[Turf1600]

I've been looking for a better provider / plan. I've had Aetna with my previous employee, now I have to pay on my own. I kept a Blue Cross PPO dental, might give BC health insurance a try this time. I like the ability of a wider network with PPO compared to HMO, but the problem is not just the deductibles, it's with the prescriptions that sometimes for some reason aren't even covered afte meeting the deductible. I'll have to research this some more ...like you said.

Alot of PPO's do prescriptions through different companies - like caremark. If you aren't careful you will get taken advantage of.

[Jscotty]

I'll just wait for the Montel Williams bus to come and bring me some perscriptions.