Nuetral resources for union information

[JGood]

My department (within a very large, worldwide company) is apparently having union talks. The company is sending weekly emails with "Union Facts" to try to sway us with staying out of the union, while the union is contacting employees trying to get everyone to sign. Both sides are treating us like 16 year olds (although some of the people here probably need that), but there's just too much BS. I don't believe any of the shit I'm reading - it's just false claims, telling us what we want to hear.

Does anyone have any resources that explain actual conditions of union organizations and how it effects the workplace and employees? Or maybe some direct experience?

[delatlanta1281]

I may get flack for this, but unions are outdated and do not work in this economy.

You stand a good chance of being laid off due to higher operating costs then being "protected" by said union. And when you are, the union won't be there to help you.

[blunttech]

I may get flack for this, but unions are outdated and do not work in this economy.

You stand a good chance of being laid off due to higher operating costs then being "protected" by said union. And when you are, the union won't be there to help you.

agreed, unions had their place back in the day. unions produce lazy ass teamster like mentality.

[JGood]

agreed, unions had their place back in the day. unions produce lazy ass teamster like mentality.

That's what I'm afraid of. People in my department are already lazy enough, if it gets worse, we will actually achieve negative production.

[1991 318is]

Unions may be "outdated" but that is because so many of the things they achieved are taken for granted today. No child labor, 40 hour week (instead of take it or leave it 60+), vacation, sick days, pay in script only good at the "Company Store", constantly changing work conditions, non discrimination based on race, religion, pensions, etc. A union also brings these things to non-union employees because a company will give them to avoid being unionized. Not everyone can be knowledgeable enough to create their own retirement in investments or even have money to invest in the first place. Young single techies working 18 hours a day, living on Skittles and Mountain Dew and sleeping under their desks make it impossible for someone with a wife much less a family to compete in that job market.
Unions are not good or bad.
Business is not good or bad.
They have their place and work for a good number of people. You have to look at each situation and decide for yourself if it is in your interest or not.
And there's that stuff stuff about the "right" to organize in the first place. Employers are unanimous in their opposition to their employees right to organize.
It's about power. It's risky business to assign relative moral values to power but it's all you need to do to justify discrimination, repression, and exploitation.
You have to answer that question yourself. The simple fact that you are asking those questions on a BMW forum implies you need to get a clue - preferably somewhere else. I'm sure you will let me know if my cynicism exceeds your belief in absolutes.

[JGood]

The simple fact that you are asking those questions on a BMW forum implies you need to get a clue - preferably somewhere else. I'm sure you will let me know if my cynicism exceeds your belief in absolutes.

Thanks for the awesome comment.

I know NOTHING about unions, I'm trying to get a clue. I asked for good resources, not for someone to tell me to vote union or not - where I ask for these resources, whether it be my friends sitting next to me or my friends using a message board, is irrelevant. There are several very intelligent and experienced people on this forum, who's opinions I would entertain.

I don't understand how going to a union will change my job. I don't know how to find out how it will change my job. I'm asking for help figuring this out.

[eurotrash]

i would look into getting some information from anouther union other then the company you work for. a great place to look is IAM which is the boeings machinics union also speea and any of the construction/plumer/elictrician unions that are bond to be local in your area. this will give you an idea of how they work and what there about with out acually having to weed out what lies Your "current" union reps are trying to tell you.

[JGood]

i would look into getting some information from anouther union other then the company you work for. a great place to look is IAM which is the boeings machinics union also speea and any of the construction/plumer/elictrician unions that are bond to be local in your area. this will give you an idea of how they work and what there about with out acually having to weed out what lies Your "current" union reps are trying to tell you.

Cool. I found the Boeing site, I'll shoot them an email. Thing is, I doubt they'll buy the story of me not having anything to do with them, and I'll likely be fed lines of what I want to hear. I'm looking for unbiased information, and I don't see a union providing that...

[mrsleeve]

Ok 1st an for most unions are not as bad as some of the gentlemen above would have you think. Most every thing we take for granted at work to day, we have the unions of 100 years ago to thank. Need examples, fair pay, fringe's, holidays, 40 hour standard week, over time, vacation time, OSHA, shall I go on?

Ok most people on a BMW forum are gonna bash unions due to the fact that they are owners or high up management of the business invloved, an the union cuts in to there bottom line. Also the union takes a lot of the power away from management an puts it in to the hands of the rank an file employee.



Next cost yes its gonna cost you a bit to belong in the from of dues an representation but lots of that goes to helping you an your fellow employee's. But in general you have to give up a trip to mcD's a couple of times a month to cover the money.

What union is trying to orgnize you? What is in the contract? its all up to you its your choice on what to do I will not tell you 1 way or another but I would seriously look into it.

just my 2 cents

Yes I am a proud member of the LIUNA (laborers local 355) an come from a long time union family. No non of us were or are UAW a long post for another time.



AWWWWW shit I jumed to the bottom before reading all the posts 91 318 got to most of it 1st.

[DaveSmed]

The IAM sucks. There's good unions and bad unions....

[Tangent]

For the most part my union is best at collecting dues. On the plus side they prevent arbitrary firings. On the minus side they also prevent fully justified firings. Consequently we have a pretty significant group of people who at best just get shuffled to less damaging positions. Poeple with an actual work ethic end up having to pick up the slack. Another "benefit" of the union is that the great employees and slackers all get paid the same. In my case I'm part of a small group in a big bargaining unit, so we got screwed recently in cost of living increase deals. Other groups got proposed decent to great increases, but we got crap. Since we're part of the same bargaining unit though, our "no" votes were lost in the "yesses" from the people getting great deals.

[delatlanta1281]

Unions may be "outdated" but that is because so many of the things they achieved are taken for granted today. No child labor, 40 hour week (instead of take it or leave it 60+), vacation, sick days, pay in script only good at the "Company Store", constantly changing work conditions, non discrimination based on race, religion, pensions, etc. A union also brings these things to non-union employees because a company will give them to avoid being unionized.

My point exactly. What do unions do now?

Ever built a Home Depot in the NE? I have. As a vendor I had to wait for the union to decide when it was ready to assemble the racking, put in the shelving, WIRE MY PRODUCT FOR ME (normally a vendor's job). If I even opened a box they were going to shut it down. It cost me 80 man hours a week for two and a half months. My crew sat around and watched them work for 20 minutes and smoke for 5. In the south it takes 4 weeks for a Home Depot to open once the brick and mortar dries. that's 160 man hours as opposed to 800 man hours..... you do the math, if your union will let you that is.

[mrsleeve]

My point exactly. What do unions do now?

.

the same thing they did then just not nearly as well due to all the restrictions an legal constraints that have been imposed on them over the last 30 years.

[JasonC]

Some places need them and other's don't. That's my

[uofom3]

do NOT join the union.. it is bad, bad voodoo.