gay marriage

[speedhop]

My input says, if they want to have the union of a marriage, which our argument says is based upon the idea of governmental acceptance and supposed "tax cuts"...let them! BUT keep it out of the church, if not we've seen it immediately create controversy. If the religious want to keep the sanctity of marriage "sacred" let them, but do not deny the expressive feelings of love simply because our traditional sense does not understand it.

/Done :)

[Fidhle007]

Nature sees it not in terms of procreation, but of recreation.

[ivo316]

One of my biggest pet peeves on this debate, is when people have to direct it towards what the bible says. Some people just dont understand that not everyone follows the bible and christianity.

OK, in my view, marriage is about love (and gay people can love), sex (gay people can have sex) and CHILDREN, (gay people can't breed) but gay people can adopt, but then those boys or girls would have a "not normal" role model.

I don't think of marriage as a way to get tax rebates, and let's say that taking the biblical issue out of the question, there's nature, unless a lesbian can get another lesbian pregnant, or a homosexual male can produce a rectal pregnancy in another male, i think NATURE is against it also.

That sphincter in particular is meant for something completely different to what gays use it for.

just my

[Fidhle007]

My personal favorite is when something tragic happens and people cry "Where is God in this?" - Do the math, you turned from Him & then some shit happened.
I don't in the least mean that God is a vengeful god, just that all of a sudden you get a bunch of non-practicing people questioning God's bigger plan.
Heck, I get dealt a bad hand & I look for the meaning - not questioning past events but what to draw as meaning for the future. Actually in one of those phases right now, but I don't bitch much.

I'll have a hard time if we ever pull "In God we trust" off our coinage. I can't say exactly why, just an overall event that would make my U.S. citizenship less meaningful. Yes, I know that sounds unbalanced but I don't care.

Anyhow, let the gays have fun & keep the doors open to the chance they might someday decide to change. Even if they don't, I'll show them the same respect I would anyone else.

But if I see 2 dudes tonguing each other I'll still laugh - it's funny, and y'all know it.

Linus, I couldn't agree with you more! I'm by no means a religious person but I do the same thing as you, I look for the message in the bad situation. It never presents itself right away but there's always something, usually involving the e30. That lesson seems to be "don't cheap out, just spend more and get something that works the first time." But I digress...

My pet peeve is with two groups of people, those who either ignore God and then complain when He doesn't watch out for them, and those who devote themeselves COMPLETELY to Jesus and think they can be assholes to anyone who hasn't. If you believe in the afterlife in the traditional cloud-floating, harp-toting sense then it seems that your actions on earth will be directly reflected in your judgement upon entering the afterlife. I don't car HOW many times a day you pray, if you're still a miserable human being I can't imagine you will be rewarded. If that IS the case, sign me up for hell now, at least I'll know people there...

[Fidhle007]

Wes, I don't agree with you (I must spend too much time in MA) but it is refreshing to hear an educated and thought-out argument! Too often people regurgitate what they've been told without fully understanding it's content.

Please don't take my quoting of Merriam-Webster's definitions of marriage as an actual argument, I meant it in a sarcastic manner jabbing at everyone who used the "Definition of the word 'Marriage'" argument without posting anything to back it up. For example, the third edition of The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, pulished in 1992, states simply that marriage is "a legal union between a man and a women." This is highly outdated and not what I would consider a valid argument but it is at least a source.

My view for legalization of gay marriage is based on my belief that humans are humans, and when one human being loves another human being enough to risk losing half of their belongings to them they should have the right to. Homosexuality is HIGHLY prevalent in nature and lots of animal species participate in homosexual acts. Based on that fact saying that homosexuality is unatural is just plain wrong, but saying that it is not something that you feel comfortable with is perfectly valid. I think people have a hard time differentiating feeling from fact these days which creates much confusion given the great speed with which information can travel.

I have not looked into Wes' statistic regarding the homosexual child/class/location/household ratio but I will when I have more time. I'm sure it is valid because homosexuality CAN be a choice, especially in females. Women are usually gay for one of two reasons: they like women or they hate men. In sexual abuse situations (usually a stepfather, probably a lower-income household) young children will in essence be "programmed" differently than they would have been had they not been abused. This will manifest later in life in many different ways, homosexual tendancies certainly being one of them. In women it's usually a strong hatered for their abuser which gets transfered to men in general and in males it's usually a desire to recreate their abuse situation. Michael Jackson anyone?

Women who have been abused and have decided to be lesbian because of it (knowingly or not) will usually cut their hair short, buy a Subaru Forester and move to Vermont, effectively ending the cycle but men, especially those who feel societally pressured into being straight, will often become sexual predators, recreating their experiences on other young children, both male and female.

I have studdied the psychology behind these situations and understand that it can contribute to the gay community but the majority of homosexual people that I know came from great, two-parent households with no creepy uncles and are simply examples of what some people refer to as "Genetic Homosexuality." My opinion? Let 'em have their fun and call it whatever they want. If it doesn't DIRECTLY harm me in any way I see no reason to oppose it, not matter how icky it might be.

Cheers,
Brendan

[Janissarie]

ok one final question, I will not get in to this


but who are we to tell people how to live their lives, its not hurting me at all of my family or anyone else if two men want to be married

I could care less


so now you go ahead and tell me, this and that

but seriously, we can not tell people how to live their lives

the land of the free

[LINUS]

It is funny how our country was founded on this but now everyone wants it gone. I just find it funny.

My personal favorite is when something tragic happens and people cry "Where is God in this?" - Do the math, you turned from Him & then some shit happened.
I don't in the least mean that God is a vengeful god, just that all of a sudden you get a bunch of non-practicing people questioning God's bigger plan.
Heck, I get dealt a bad hand & I look for the meaning - not questioning past events but what to draw as meaning for the future. Actually in one of those phases right now, but I don't bitch much.

I'll have a hard time if we ever pull "In God we trust" off our coinage. I can't say exactly why, just an overall event that would make my U.S. citizenship less meaningful. Yes, I know that sounds unbalanced but I don't care.

Anyhow, let the gays have fun & keep the doors open to the chance they might someday decide to change. Even if they don't, I'll show them the same respect I would anyone else.

But if I see 2 dudes tonguing each other I'll still laugh - it's funny, and y'all know it.

[whakiewes]

why not

not recently ago the Americans beleived that it is their duty to own Slaves, and that the JEWS were the evil
now it all has changed

now people beleive that gay marriage is evil, and some even beleive the Muslims are evil

in time it will all change

let people live their lives the way they want

I am not sure what you are saying? American's owned slaves as a method of production which supported capitalism. It was never a duty to own slaves, infact less than 20% of all Americans in the 1800's owned slaves. Its a myth that 'everyone' had slaves. Only the wealthy upper echelon had the ability to purchase slaves, and in all honesty not much has changed even today. The upper echelon still has maids and 'workers' that get paid just above the poverty line, in order to make the household more productive. The only difference is that those workers can quit at anytime and have 'rights'. They are not owned. Regardless, it was never a duty to own slaves, but a privilege of the wealthiest Americans.

When did Americans hate jews? Never in my entire studies of history did we ever hate jews. There are small sects of upperclass strict protestants that don't take well to jews, but as far as I know it has never been a policy of the United States.

The fact is the question is of governmental concern. The main concern ever posted is that a homosexual couple can be married in Massachusets, but if they choose to move to another state, their marriage won't be recognized and in some states they face legal action. The other issue at hand is that people view the homosexual couple the same as a heterosexual couple, in that they can perform in the same way. They bring up the topic of taxation status, 401K, and retirement. The fact is though that tax breaks were originally intended for married couples to reproduce as their contribution to society. The tax break for married couples was created for the sole purpose to help 'afford' children. In a homosexual couple, this is non-existant. Adoption is a whole nother matter, but I can provide hundreds of studies showing the effect on children raised in homosexual households. Everyone know 'someone' who turned out alright, but do you know them really that well. The same goes for divorced families. There is no legal basis for making same-sex marriage legal, and infact there is much more evidence through law to make it illegal. The problem is though that the reprocussions of making it illegal would be huge, and making it legal would again expand central government control and set in motion thousands of legal suits. In turn, it will never be decided on.

Wes

[BDSax]

It is funny how our country was founded on this but now everyone wants it gone. I just find it funny.

its not funny. its sad.

[whakiewes]

Someone have enough time on there hands? :)

Actually I don't, but that only took a few minutes. Many people talk but are uneducated, and unfortunately on public boards, bad information can be passed for a ways. I am often asked about gay marriage as I got to a VERY liberal school and for the most part I am hated on campus. The difference though between them and I is that I know what I believe; considering my entire family believes differently. I could care less if you choose gay-marriage, just so long as you are educated about the topic and don't just speak out of your ass (not intended at you, but people as a whole).

Senior year pre-law will make you do things like this. I would also like people to take notice that I never used the terms republican or democrat, as many people often get dissolved in those terms. Neither party is aware of their beliefs and if there has ever been pocketbook politics, it is now more so than ever. I voted for Bush in 00' and 04', and I 100% support him, just as I did Bill Clinton. I don't agree with his policies pertaining to governmental control and foreign policy; which to me make up what a party is about. His social policies are up and down, mostly swinging with his ratings. He stands firm on some subjects, but overall we are the further from a conservative Republican government as we have ever been.

Wes

[browntown]

we are from different generations. ive seen the world slide into the toilet year after year with morals almost non existent in todays youth. and every generation gets worse. im far far far from perfect but i know right from wrong and my right from wrong is different than your generation. the world is a shithole and it all began with baby steps. this is just another of those steps. soon the liberals will out number the people who are correct and theres no turning back then

I'm older than most on this board, but that's a fair point. I can only speak to the way I was raised and all the bullshit I've seen in my lifetime. I can't speak to "better times" back in the day. In fact, I think we have done allright. But this nation still doesn't know who it is. This next election will really get people hating each other.

I'm a libertarian and believe the gov't should stay as much out of people's lives as possible.

[Janissarie]

why not

not recently ago the Americans beleived that it is their duty to own Slaves, and that the JEWS were the evil
now it all has changed

now people beleive that gay marriage is evil, and some even beleive the Muslims are evil

in time it will all change

let people live their lives the way they want

[Midnight Sun]

It is funny how our country was founded on this but now everyone wants it gone. I just find it funny.

Wrong!

See Deism. And it was a strongly held belief of many of the framers. Would it surprise you to know that many historians have even found ties between Benjamin Franklin and Satanists Churches?

Someone have enough time on there hands? :)

I think he just wrote his paper.:D


I say let them marry. I really don't mind what they call it. The sanctity of marriage argument seems to be really off base when it comes to not letting gays get married. I mean, if we really wanted to protect the sanctity of marriage so much, than we shouldn't allow celebrities to get married. Period.

[*R*]

If you are reffering to Ian then no he has a dad aswell who he was raised with also, its not like he was ONLY raised by his mothers.

And as for the original topic, i dont care that much at all, but if i had to decide i would say "no". it's weird for me

No was talking about my ex Ellie

[E30trash]

Since your writing your paper only on the basis of the constitution, I will provide it in such a manner.

Someone have enough time on there hands? :)