Problems shipping my turbo. Damn UPS.

[Garageaholic]

So i sold my turbo to some guy in british columbia. we agreed on a price and he paypal me the money. I shipped it out to him on time and wrapped it all myself with love and care (as gay as it sounds, but i was very careful with packing this kit)


He received it yesterday and emailed me with complaints of broken guages, turbine ticking when spinning... broken RRFPR and actually sent me pictures. the pictures don't look at all like when i packed it. He never ASKED for insurance on the package and i'm afraid that he's going to file a claim on paypal.

What kind of leverage do i have? I played this all by the books and when the kit left my door, I guarantee that it was a 100% perfectly working system. It was a "sold as is" situation. Customs/UPS really fucked up here.


Who is liable if a claim is filed? Am i fucked here? I'm going to offer him $200 and call it a day for his troubles.

[Ender.]

Isn't it the buyers responsibility for shipping damages? Which is the reason one would pay for insurance. I have no clue how that works but best of luck to you getting it resolved.

[KenC]

UPS has $100 insurance with every package... or at least they used to.

[JGood]

I find it hard to believe the boxes would be damaged to the point that the turbine internals would be damaged. Consider the forces required for that, and think about what the packaging would look like. There likely wouldn't be any packaging left. He should realize that's not your fault...

[Erick]

I think you're mistaken with Fedex Ken.

[JGood]

UPS does have $100 insurance automatically (within the U.S., at least). Not that that helps with a couple thousand dollar turbo kit...

[Jordan]

Yup, everything you ship UPS or FedEX has a base insured value of $100. You should have purchased more. File a claim and you will get that $100, but thats all.

If he never asked for insurance thats not really "his problem" you should have asked him, and if he said no then its not your problem. I always insure anything I ship over $100 for its actual paid for value.

[Rigmaster]

In general, it's the seller/shipper's responsibility to get the item to the buyer in whatever condition it was represented when sold. Some sellers say that it's not their responsibility once the item is turned over to the shipping company, but I say BS to that. It's too easy for the buyer to file a claim, so it's up to the seller to cover his/her ass.

That means insurance on everything that you can't afford to lose or pay for out of pocket. I often will insure items that *should be* covered by UPS' basic $100 coverage- it just makes things easier IF you have to end up filing a damage claim if you've purchased insurance.

Be aware that UPS will almost always try to weasel out of paying any damage claims by using the "insufficient packaging" excuse. Thing is, it's up to THEM to determine if the packaging is sufficient or not- and they can easily say it's not, no matter how well you packed it.

Not much you can do here, IMHO, but to hope they assume some responsibility- but remember this one for future shipments- ALWAYS buy insurance if you think it would be a hassle/hardship if the item you are shipping is lost or damaged.


BTW- Customs will NEVER accept liability for any damaged shipment- and chances are that they never inspected this particular package anyway. If they do , they usually reseal the package with special customs tape that says something like "package opened and resealed for customs purposes".



Bret.

[blunttech]

for once cockmaster is right. i gamble a lot and dont insure everything but if a customer claims an item is damaged upon arrival i replace it. its your responsibility to get it to him in the condition he paid for it.

[Garageaholic]

Be aware that UPS will almost always try to weasel out of paying any damage claims by using the "insufficient packaging" excuse. Thing is, it's up to THEM to determine if the packaging is sufficient or not- and they can easily say it's not, no matter how well you packed it.


BTW- Customs will NEVER accept liability for any damaged shipment- and chances are that they never inspected this particular package anyway. If they do , they usually reseal the package with special customs tape that says something like "package opened and resealed for customs purposes".



Bret.

I am willing to bet that customs did disassemble the contents of the box and then threw everything back in there and it's mainly becuase I wrapped everything in that box with peanuts, newspapers and i made sure everything had been properly packaged. when he showed me those pictures, they were in a completely different orientation. They just threw those parts back in the box... literally threw them in there. Broke the gauges that i put in there. I mean the needle BROKE off the gauge.

It's not fair at all and I really dont think it's my responsibility. I said in the ebay auction that insurance is offered, but at an extra cost. and when the item did not sell and we made the transaction on the side, he never said anything about wanting insurance.

I am an honest seller and am very frustrated that this happened and i'm going to give ups a handful when i see them tomorrow.

[Rigmaster]

I am willing to bet that customs did disassemble the contents of the box and then threw everything back in there and it's mainly becuase I wrapped everything in that box with peanuts, newspapers and i made sure everything had been properly packaged. when he showed me those pictures, they were in a completely different orientation. They just threw those parts back in the box... literally threw them in there. Broke the gauges that i put in there. I mean the needle BROKE off the gauge.

It's not fair at all and I really dont think it's my responsibility. I said in the ebay auction that insurance is offered, but at an extra cost. and when the item did not sell and we made the transaction on the side, he never said anything about wanting insurance.

I am an honest seller and am very frustrated that this happened and i'm going to give ups a handful when i see them tomorrow.

I feel ya.


BUT, I also know that customs does not inspect much- especially going to Canada. What's more likely is that the box broke open and UPS "re-wrapped" it. They have a whole department that does nothing but re-wrap busted boxes.

I also know what you're saying about how carefully you packed the stuff, and that you offered insurance- but believe me when I tell you, you don't have much of a leg to stand on, especially if you hope put any of the responsibility on the buyer.

No matter the outcome, consider this a lesson learned. It's up to you how you do it in the future, but I would strongly recommend REQUIRING insurance for everything- just add it into your shipping cost, and only if the buyer specifically says that they are willing to take the risk of no insurance to save a dollar or two would I ship without insurance. But make it clear that without insurance, your responsibility ends once the shipping company gets the package. (it's not really worth it, so I'd do this only if the buyer insisted and would take the risk).


Thing with UPS is, they have a huge claims dept. Try to get some satisfaction with the person you call, but don't bother getting into a fight with them if they can't help you. Ask for their supervisor, or just hang up and call back later and talk to someone else. Keep in mind that they will be taking notes during your phone call (these will be attached to your shipment's tracking number so any UPS rep can pull them up with the tracking number)- so don't be a complete asshole and be sure to keep your story consistent, otherwise they'll just deny the claim off the bat.

Bret.

[Rigmaster]

for once cockmaster is right. i gamble a lot and dont insure everything but if a customer claims an item is damaged upon arrival i replace it. its your responsibility to get it to him in the condition he paid for it.

Damn Blunty- I always KNEW we were separated at birth....


;)

[george graves]

I've been shipping my interior light gizmo over seas alot recently. I alway give the buyer two options.

- Shipped insured with tracking and it will get there or you'll get another one.
- Shipped with out insurance/tracking and I'll snap a pic of the package as it leaves my door, but your on your own from there.

I've got to say - it's the seller responsibility, unless you've made an agreement before hand. Now it's just going to be a lot of finger pointing.

[Jordan]

I am an honest seller and am very frustrated that this happened and i'm going to give ups a handful when i see them tomorrow.

FYI: Being a dick from the get go is about the worst thing you can do. Even on a SLAM DUNK claim shit gets bent against you. The representative you are talking to is paid to not pay on claims.

I shipped a LTW Flywheel to a member here back on Aug 8th 2007. FedEX lost it in their system on Aug 10th 2007. A couple days later I started the claims process. They admitted to losing it, and it being their fault. No ifs ands or buts. It still took 3 FULL MONTHS, a BBB complaint, and 50lbs of expletives to 15 different representatives to get the claim paid. In my case I believe I upset some black waffleswaffleswaffleswaffles representative who ended up being assigned to the claim, who then kept "losing" the claims I submitted, and "forgetting" to send checks.

Parcel carriers accept zero responsibility for your package if you haven't insured it, and short of litigation they have zero obligation or motivation to give you the time of day, let alone a claim check.

[Garageaholic]

You're right. you guys are totally right. It just sucks, that's all. I don't have much of a leg to stand on, but my last ditch effort is to offer him some consolidation money which is about $300 for his troubles, probabably more if he asks. I dont' want to deal with a paypal claim right now.

It really sucks, but proper preparation prevents piss poor performance... and thats what i neglected to do in this case. I fucked up and i need to pay the consequences.

I'll also try to file a claim with UPS and get my $100 at least. Next time, i dont care if the shipping is $350 (like it could have been with insurance) i'll charge it.