Vermont Drinking Age to 18?

[Sean]

I'm not saying that all 18's are mature enough to drink, but I also don't think that changing the legal age to 18 is going to switch the demographics much, i.e. kids will start drinking 3 year earlier. I knew some kids that started drinking at 16. If the legal age were lowered to 18, I doubt those kids will then start drinking at 13.

I completely agree with you though on the driving schools. Even if you are a very good driver, it's not like taking driver' ed will hurt you, in can only help. Driver's ed should be mandatory, no questions asked. Considering we loose 20,000+ people under the age of 25 every year in this country to car crashes, it's criminal that we don't do more to protect them. It's like having a 9/11 every month in terms of deaths.

You're probably right, they're gonna start drinking when they wanna start drinkin.

[CorvallisBMW]

Just bringing up some points I thought of. I'm not entirely against the 18yo drinking age - but saying that all 18yo are mature enough to handle alcohol responsibly I think is being a bit generous.


Oh ya, and I agree with you sticks. I hate knowing that any little girly that's 15 can get her license as long as she drove around with her mommy and daddy for four months, learning how to stop at red lights and change lanes. I think all drives should be required to attend a driving school, like a teen driving school, to learn how to control their vehicles. lol

I'm not saying that all 18's are mature enough to drink, but I also don't think that changing the legal age to 18 is going to switch the demographics much, i.e. kids will start drinking 3 year earlier. I knew some kids that started drinking at 16. If the legal age were lowered to 18, I doubt those kids will then start drinking at 13.

I completely agree with you though on the driving schools. Even if you are a very good driver, it's not like taking driver' ed will hurt you, in can only help. Driver's ed should be mandatory, no questions asked. Considering we loose 20,000+ people under the age of 25 every year in this country to car crashes, it's criminal that we don't do more to protect them. It's like having a 9/11 every month in terms of deaths.

[Sean]

So to all of those who believe that the drinking age should remain 21, I pose a question:
which is more dangerous, an 18 year old kid with a 5000lb, 300hp SUV OR an 18 year old kid with a 6-pack? Which can do more damage to either themselves or others? If we are going to entrust kids (and yes, 16 year olds are still kids) to drive 100+ mph death machines, then why couldn't an 18 year old handle a beer?

And what's to stop that oh-so-responsible 18 year old kid from driving that 5000lb death machine drunk? Not saying adults don't do it, cause they do. But, if you bring up the above scenario, you can't leave out other plausable scenarios as well.

To answer your question though, it depends on how many HPDE's he attended. :D

I truly believe that an 18 year old is completely capable of handling alcohol the same as a 21 year old. Lets face it, most people who drink started way before 21 anyway, so the demographics would not change much. If anything you are going to increase transparency. Anyone who wants to drink under 21 has to do so illegally at house parties or other such events, where there is no supervision. At least if they were drinking at a bar there would be someone to watch over them, cut them off, protect them from being raped/drugged, etc.

So, when you drink at a bar, people watch out for you? Keep you from driving? Keep you from getting drugged? Sure, maybe in a perfect world...but we're not in a perfect world. I bet the only thing a bar would help you do is go outside to puke - unless you're at a bar with 5 people in it in some small town of course.

Also, sure, most 18 yo's may be responsible enough to control their alcohol usage. That's definitely possible. But, why not keep them at the house party? Then they can just pass out there, and not drive anywhere? I guess what I'm trying to say is - the irresponsible teenagers will continue being irresponsible even if the age is lowered - it will just make it easier for them to acquire their booze.

Believe what you want about us here in the US, but the facts are that the rest of the world has a lower drinking age than us AND a lower rate of alcohol poisoning, drunk driving, rape, vandalism, domestic violence, etc amongst 18-21 year olds. So lowering the drinking age would seem to be a good thing, not a bad thing.

I don't think lowering the drinking age will magically low all of the bad things in our country. It would probably, I think, just lower the age that most kids start drinking. But, all you can do is speculate. The US is very different from Europe, and other countries around the world. Our population is very diverse - and no matter what the age, people will always make poor decisions.



Just bringing up some points I thought of. I'm not entirely against the 18yo drinking age - but saying that all 18yo are mature enough to handle alcohol responsibly I think is being a bit generous.


Oh ya, and I agree with you sticks. I hate knowing that any little girly that's 15 can get her license as long as she drove around with her mommy and daddy for four months, learning how to stop at red lights and change lanes. I think all drives should be required to attend a driving school, like a teen driving school, to learn how to control their vehicles. lol

[sticksdaman]

I do feel that if the drinking age is lowered to 18 then the license requirements should be adjusted accordingly.(far too easy to obtain as it stands)

I also feel that there should be a one and done policy as far as DUIs OR DWI's are concerned for persons under the current (21)legal age. Meaning that one violation results in a termination of your license.

That being said.... this is shaping up to be a great discussion

[CorvallisBMW]

So to all of those who believe that the drinking age should remain 21, I pose a question:
which is more dangerous, an 18 year old kid with a 5000lb, 300hp SUV OR an 18 year old kid with a 6-pack? Which can do more damage to either themselves or others? If we are going to entrust kids (and yes, 16 year olds are still kids) to drive 100+ mph death machines, then why couldn't an 18 year old handle a beer?

I truly believe that an 18 year old is completely capable of handling alcohol the same as a 21 year old. Lets face it, most people who drink started way before 21 anyway, so the demographics would not change much. If anything you are going to increase transparency. Anyone who wants to drink under 21 has to do so illegally at house parties or other such events, where there is no supervision. At least if they were drinking at a bar there would be someone to watch over them, cut them off, protect them from being raped/drugged, etc.

Believe what you want about us here in the US, but the facts are that the rest of the world has a lower drinking age than us AND a lower rate of alcohol poisoning, drunk driving, rape, vandalism, domestic violence, etc amongst 18-21 year olds. So lowering the drinking age would seem to be a good thing, not a bad thing.

[FredK]

You can't use Europe as an example for drinking laws.

• Few teens drive there. Many teens drive in the US. It's too expensive to own and run a car over there.
• Their public transportation system is way better / Suburban America is WAY spread out. In Europe, you can get ripped, get on a bus / train and get your ass home cheaply. In the US you might be able to do this in a few select cities.
  
  For example, you can't really do this in Boston because the subway closes down at around 12:40 pm. Cabs do not factor into the vocabulary of teens / E30 owners.

I also don't buy the forbidden fruit theory. Retardedness abounds in teenagers. They act retardedly enough without a drop of alcohol in their system, never mind with a Bacardi Silver coursing through their veins.

[rwh11385]

Exactly what this country needs. A bunch of legally-intoxicated high school kids driving.

The trade-off should be they raise the driving age to 18, and make it as difficult and expensive to get a license as it is in Germany.

If we make it like Germany, let's have the age of consent be 14, and let them 14 year olds get drunk! then lets see what the hell is the result :p

Charlie could have a field day in the van. They can't drive, are drunk, and like FREE CANDY.

[uofom3]

Am I the only one that believes that underage drinking (hell, teen drinking in general) will go DOWN if they bring the drinking age to 18?

Half the retards in high school drink because "it's cool". Make it legal and its suddenly boring now.

+1

Forbidden Fruit theory - make it legal and it's not nearly so cool... looses all the mystique.

[uofom3]

I don't understand this countries inability to control itself.

[Erik j]

Ive had the same case of beer for 6 months now, I just never really drink anymore

[Sean]

You know, I just thought of something.

Just because an 18 CAN serve, doesn't mean they will. SO - here's what should be done. If they HAVE or ARE serving - they can drink!

If they haven't - then they gotta wait til their 21.

Anyone that's been in the military is responsible, normally - and than that quotation stands, "18 to serve, 18 to be served"



Oh, and those kids that drink just cause everyone does it, will keep doing what everyone does. They will remain failures their entire life. I didn't have my first drink until I graduated from high school. I drink as much now at 21 as I did then - not that much. I've had 6 beers in my fridge for a month (actually, I should drink them before too much longer). What I'm saying is, now the high schoolers will go to the bars and get drunk of their ass and try to drive home. At least the irresponsible ones.

I don't know, I agree with 18yo drinkin age, but then again I don't. I'm torn.

[dvs909]

keep it at 21. im 19 fyi.
none of my friends are even near responsable enough to be drinking at bars. they would drive to the bar and drive home. because they are stupid and havnt learned anything. for my sake i dont want them on the road at all.
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[Car Addict]

I would just like to chime in a point that i do not think has been raised yet. The US is extremely rare in the fact that we have a 21 year old drinking age. the only other countries that have a 21 drinking age are Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Indonesia excluding Bali, Ukraine, Kiribati. that is all all other countries are a lesser age.

Teens are going to drink there is no way of stopping it we try to limit it but no matter what is done teenagers will continue to drink. I am in support of lowering it the exact age I am still not sure. I have heard good arguments for 18 as well as much younger. the much younger comes from the idea that if kids drink at a young age and are taught responsible drinking there is a possibility that they will take it to heart.

The drinking age at 18 is in my opinion this simple.

I can be killed by my country, I can die for my country, I can change my countries future but I cant alter my state of mind?

That is all.

[mrsleeve]

even if were to pass it would never stand for long. The fed government will threten to cut off the Highway funding unless its repealed. Just like they did with the .08 legal limit any state that did not comply would lose its highway funding, this is also the same reason Montana lost the no speed limit deal.


edit: I do agree old enough to be drafted old enough to have a beer. It may lead to issues but actual raising of the kids and teaching them right from wrong may take care of that

[uofom3]

Exactly what this country needs. A bunch of legally-intoxicated high school kids driving.

The trade-off should be they raise the driving age to 18, and make it as difficult and expensive to get a license as it is in Germany.

That's outrageous.

I'm all for driving restrictions being as tight as they are in Germany... a monkey can get a drivers license in the US.

A person can vote, fight and die in war, but can't have a beer? Please....

That whole thing seems spot on to me. Driving at 16 doesn't bother me, but there should be more mandatory education.

Drinking at 18 only seems reasonable. You think these people are informed enough to vote at 18? Fuck no. I wasn't, but maybe that's because I'm informed now.. but you'll entrust them with the ability to have an impact on the nations future? That's insane. Furthermore, these same people can enlist an die. They should certainly be able to have a beer.

This is the same thing as this nations stance on sex... they teach "abstinence" but we all know that is crock of shit (in general). Let people drink, dissolve the mystique of it, and generally educate people to do it properly.

the people who I have seen develop alcohol problems that seriously impact their lives are the ones who never drank in HS, and then went to college and went off-the-reservation nuts with drinking once they were out of the house. they started fucking up when shit actually mattered...

Meanwhile, I drank in HS (at an early age, which I have no regrets about) and stopped partying at 21 and changed (at least partying on a regular basis). why? because after doing it for 8 years it looses it's luster.

That's just a personal experience.... but to say someone can vote, and die for their country, but NOT drink is just rediculous....