Announcement

**Julien** · 06-18-2008, 02:39 PM

sigh, ignorant.

**myinfernalbmw** · 06-18-2008, 02:43 PM

I caught the title and saw who posted it and almost shit until i actually read the substance of the post.

**Bimmerista** · 06-18-2008, 02:45 PM

Lack of creativity in this thread is through the roof

**Vedubin01** · 06-18-2008, 02:46 PM

sad thing is, Mccain is no better and is lost somewhere in Iraq. Its going to be a long road ahead......

PS not to start a fight or anything but those that vote for Obama, what do you think is going to change? How do you see the United States 3 years from now if he does win?

Just would like to see some other views... I only start threads like this to get people thinking not to fight.... so feel free to let out! this is off topic!

**mrsleeve** · 06-18-2008, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Vedubin01 View Post

How do you see the United States 3 years from now if he does win?

I see lots of gun control laws (maybe by banning or making it hard to get ammo) I see 37 dollars a gallon for fuel, 24 bucks for a loaf of bread, long unemployment lines, Huge increase in taxes, A shitty national health care plan (I agree something needs to be done but that is not the answer), a nation full of illegals, mexican trucks and drivers dropping lots of expensive chinise shit off ever where, A big ass highway form mexico to canada, the birth of the north american union and the death of the US constitution.

Now most of that may be a bit far fetched but it will not be good at all its something we all need to be afraid of.

**Midnight Sun** · 06-18-2008, 03:37 PM

Lots of titty avatar.

I approve.

**Pinepig** · 06-18-2008, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Julien View Post

sigh, ignorant.

Really now.

Barack Hussein Obama On Gun Control

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions

Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:

Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime

Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect

Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought

Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations

Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices

Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality

I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities

Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?
A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now.
Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month

Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

Chicago Defender December 13, 1999,

Obama unveils federal gun bill

Obama is proposing to make it a felony for a gun owner whose firearm was stolen from his residence which causes harm to another person if that weapon was not securely stored in that home.

He's proposing restricting gun purchases to one weapon a month and banning the sale of firearms at gun shows except for "antique" weapons. Obama is also proposing increasing the licensing fee to obtain a federal firearms

Here's the Chicago Tribune, October 8, 2004:

In 2001, Obama was one of just nine senators to vote against a bill that toughened penalties for violent crimes committed during gang activity. Obama said the law did not clearly define a gang member and he questioned why lawmakers were targeting Hispanics and blacks for stiffer sentences.

Two years earlier, after the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado, Obama voted "present" on a bill requiring juveniles to be prosecuted as adults for firing a firearm on or near school property.

Obama also voted against a bill permitting gun owners to claim self-defense when using a gun in their homes if the local community bans the use of handguns. Obama said municipalities should control local gun regulations, not the state.

"That law eviscerated anti-handgun ordinances in some communities," Obama said. "The way I feel, Wilmette should not determine Mattoon's firearms ordinances and Mattoon should not determine Wilmette's."

Associated Press, Sept. 11, 2004:

-Voted 'No' on letting people claim a self-defense protection in court for using a gun in their homes despite local weapons bans. (SB2165, 2004)

-Voted 'Yes' on letting retired police and military police carry concealed weapons. (SB2188, 2004)

Obama won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police. Union officials cited Obama's longtime support of gun-control measures and his willingness to negotiate compromises on bills backed or opposed by the FOP.

Barack Hussein Obama On Immigration

Immigration raids are ineffective. (Feb 2008)

Health plan: not enough resources for illegal immigrants. (Jan 2008)

Illegals shouldn't work; but should have path to citizenship. (Dec 2007)

Don't deputize Americans to turn in illegal immigrants. (Dec 2007)

OK to provide government services in Spanish. (Dec 2007)

Comprehensive solution includes employers & borders. (Nov 2007)

Support granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. (Nov 2007)

FactCheck: Lightning IS likelier than employer prosecution. (Nov 2007)

Illegal immigrants' lack of ID is a public safety concern. (Oct 2007)

Pathway to citizenship, but people have to earn it. (Aug 2007)

Let's be a nation of laws AND a nation of immigrants. (Aug 2007)

Extend welfare and Medicaid to immigrants. (Jul 1998)

Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)

Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)

Voted YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship. (May 2006)

.

**Pinepig** · 06-18-2008, 03:58 PM

Barack Hussein Obama On Taxes

Last thing we need now is a permanent tax cut. (Jan 2008)

Voted NO on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax. (Mar 2007)

Voted NO on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million. (Mar 2007)

Voted NO on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts. (Aug 2006)

Voted NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`. (Jun 2006)

Voted YES on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut. (Feb 2006)

Voted NO on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends. (Feb 2006)

Voted NO on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends. (Nov 2005)

I'm not bashful about it: wealthy will pay more taxes. (Jan 2008)

Reduce Bush tax cuts to pay for health care & other programs. (Jun 2007)

Barack Hussein Obama On Iraq

Get our troops out by the end of 2009. (Jan 2008)

The surge is not working toward enduring peace. (Jan 2008)

Surge strategy has made a difference in Iraq but failed. (Nov 2007)

Hopes to remove all troops from Iraq by 2013, but no pledge. (Sep 2007)

We live in a more dangerous world because of Bush's actions. (Jun 2007)

Open-ended Iraq occupation must end: no military solution. (Apr 2007)

Begin withdrawal May 1 2007; finish by March 31 2008. (Apr 2007)

Open dialogue with both Syria and Iran. (Apr 2007)

Withdraw gradually and keep some troops in Iraq region. (Mar 2007)

Invading Iraq was a bad strategic blunder. (Oct 2004)

Meet directly for diplomacy with the leadership in Iran. (Nov 2007)

Al Qaida is stronger than before thanks to the Bush doctrine. (Jan 2006)

Problems with current Israeli policy. (Jul 2004)

Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)

Barack Obama Would Cause An Economic Disaster

Obama Tax Backgrounder

OBAMA’S HIGH TAX PLATFORM WILL FURTHER WEAKEN OUR ECONOMY

Obama Is A High Tax Candidate, Having Proposed A Slew Of Tax Increases:

Obama Has Called For Higher Income Taxes, Social Security Taxes, Capital Gains And Dividend Taxes, And Corporate Taxes, As Well As “Massive New Domestic Spending.” “Obama’s transformation, if you go by his campaign so far, would mean higher income taxes, higher Social Security taxes, higher investment taxes, higher corporate taxes, massive new domestic spending, and a healthcare plan that perhaps could be the next step to a full-scale, single-payer system. Is that what most Americans want, someone who will fulfill a Democratic policy wish list?” (James Pethokoukis, “Barack Hussein Reagan? Ronald Wilson Obama?” U.S. News & World Report’s “Capital Commerce” Blog, www.usnews.com, 2/12/08)

Obama Also Called For A Tax On Coal And Natural Gas. Obama: “What we ought to tax is dirty energy, like coal and, to a lesser extent, natural gas.” (“Q&A With Sen. Barack Obama,” San Antonio Express-News, 2/19/08)
Obama Called For A Windfall Profits Tax On Oil Companies. Obama: “I think it is appropriate for us to impose a windfall profits tax on our oil companies.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At A Campaign Event, Charlotte, NC, 5/2/08)
“[Obama] Wants To Raise Taxes Even Above The Levels Of The Clinton Era, Including A Huge Increase In The Payroll Tax.” (Editorial, “The Obama We Don't Know,” The Wall Street Journal, 6/4/08)

If Obama Is Elected To The Presidency And Democrats Get A 60-Vote Majority In The Senate, Taxes Will Go Up. “What will happen to the U.S. economy if Barack Obama wins the presidency and he's backed by a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate? Taxes will go up.” (Rich Karlgaard, Op-Ed, “Where Will Taxpayers Hide?” Forbes, 6/16/08)

Obama’s Plan To Raise Taxes During An Economic Downturn Would Only Further Weaken Our Economy:

CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo Asked Obama: “Why Raise Taxes At All In An Economic Slowdown? Isn’t That Going To Put A Further Strain On People?” (CNBC’s “Closing Bell,” 3/27/08)

U.S. News & World Report’s Michael Barone Said Obama’s Fiscal Policy Is Akin To Herbert Hoover’s – Raising Taxes And Backing Protectionist Trade Policies During An Economic Slowdown. “On fiscal policy, both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton want higher taxes, at least on high earners. They want to let at least some of the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010, as scheduled. On trade, they oppose new free-trade agreements and want to renegotiate NAFTA with Canada and Mexico. As it happens, another president embraced such policies in a time of economic slowdown and financial market turbulence: Herbert Hoover raised taxes on high earners sharply and, ignoring a letter signed by 1,000 economists, signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff in 1930. The results were not pretty. Until now, his example has not commended itself to Democrats. One wonders whether voters will agree that tax increases will stimulate the economy.” (Michael Barone, Op-Ed, “Uncle Sam Pays? Sure, Whatever,” U.S. News & World Report, 4/21/08)

OBAMA HAS REPEATEDLY VOTED FOR HIGHER TAXES IN THE U.S. SENATE

It’s No Surprise That Obama Would Raise Taxes As President, Because He’s Repeatedly Voted For Higher Taxes In The Senate:

Obama Voted At Least 94 Times For Higher Taxes In The U.S. Senate. (RNC Research)

To Date, Obama Has Voted For A Tax Increase Approximately Once Every Five Days Congress Has Been In Session. (RNC Research; The Library Of Congress Website, thomas.loc.gov, Accessed 6/8/08)
Obama Voted At Least 12 Times For Higher Income Taxes. (RNC Research)

Obama Voted Against Marriage Penalty Relief At Least Twice. (RNC Research)

Obama Voted Against Extending The Expanded Child Tax Credit. (RNC Research)

Obama Voted At Least 3 Times Against Repealing The 1993 Income Tax Increase On Social Security Benefits. (RNC Research)

Obama Has Voted At Least 5 Times Against Providing Relief From The Alternative Minimum Tax. (RNC Research)

Obama Has Voted At Least 7 Times Against Tax Incentives Benefitting Small Business. (RNC Research)

Obama Voted Against Capital Gains Tax Cuts At Least 9 Times. (RNC Research)

Obama Voted Against Tax Cuts On Dividend Income At Least 9 Times. (RNC Research)

Obama Voted In Favor Of The Democrats’ FY 2009 Budget, Which Would Raise Tax Rates For Americans Earning As Little As $31,850:

Obama Voted Twice In Favor Of The Democrats’ FY 2009 Budget Resolution. (S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #85, Adopted 51-44: R 2-43; D 47-1; I 2-0, 3/14/08, Obama Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #142: Adopted 48- 45: R 2- 44; D 44- 1; I 2-0, 6/4/08, Obama Voted Yea)

The Democrats’ Budget Would Raise Taxes On Individuals Earning As Little As $31,850. “Under both Democratic plans, tax rates would increase by 3 percentage points for each of the 25 percent, 28 percent and 33 percent brackets. At present, the 25 percent bracket begins at $31,850 for individuals and $63,700 for married couples. The 35 percent bracket on incomes over $349,700 would jump to 39.6 percent.” (Andrew Taylor, “Presidential Hopefuls To Vote On Budget,” The Associated Press, 3/13/08)

NOTE: Obama’s Vote For The Democrats’ Budget Is At Odds With His Rhetoric On The Campaign Trail, Where He Claims He’ll Provide Tax Relief For Working Americans. Obama: “I’ll give a tax cut to working people …” (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At A Campaign Rally, Denver, CO, 1/30/08)

OBAMA SUPPORTED HUNDREDS OF TAX INCREASES IN THE STATE SENATE

Obama Has A Record Of Voting For Higher Taxes In The Illinois State Senate:

In The State Senate, Obama Supported “Hundreds Of Tax Increases.” ABC’s Terry Moran: “[O]bama was considered a reliable liberal Democratic vote in Illinois. For instance, voting for most gun control measures, opposing efforts to ban so-called partial birth abortions and supporting hundreds of tax increases.” (ABC’s “Nightline,” 2/25/08)

In 2004, Obama Voted For A $304 Million Tax Increase On Businesses In Creating The Tax Shelter Voluntary Compliance Act. (H.B. 848, Illinois Senate Floor Third Reading, Passed 30-28-1, 5/20/04, Obama Voted Yea; Dave McKinney, “Blagojevich Threatens Up To 5,000 State Layoffs,” Chicago Sun-Times, 5/21/04)

**Pinepig** · 06-18-2008, 03:59 PM

The Legislation “Triggered A Huge Outcry From Business Groups,” Which Contended It Would “Drive Companies Out Of State” And Cost Jobs. “The governor's bid to raise taxes and fees by close to $400 million and reel in another $300 million-plus in corporate tax breaks has triggered a huge outcry from business groups, which contend the moves will drive companies out of state and cause Illinois to lose jobs.” (Dave McKinney and Leslie Griffy, “Blagojevich Threatens Up To 5,000 State Layoffs,” Chicago Sun-Times, 5/21/04)
In 2003, Obama Voted For A Bill “That Raised A Huge Number Of Fees And Taxes” On Businesses And Licenses. “Obama voted for a bill during the 2003 Illinois General Assembly legislative session that raised a huge number of fees and taxes for businesses and licenses to cover day-to-day expenses of state government.” (Terrence L. Barnich, Op-Ed, “4 Partisan Questions For Obama,” Chicago Tribune, 7/29/04)

The Legislation Negatively Impacted Illinois’ Trucking Industry, Costing The State 25,000 Licensed Trucks In 2005. “Almost 17,000 fewer commercial trucks and 2,700 fewer trucking companies have been registered in Illinois for 2005, fueling the trucking industry's claim that Gov. Rod Blagojevich is driving businesses out of the state with his new fees and business taxes.” (Brian Wallheimer, “Governor's New Fees Are Driving Trucking Firms Out Of Illinois, Industry Says,” St. Louis Post- Dispatch, 5/5/04)
In 2003, Obama Voted To Tax Natural Gas Purchased Outside Of Illinois. (S.B. 1733, Bill Status, www.ilga.gov, Accessed 2/11/08; S.B. 1733: Concurrence In House Amendment #4, Passed 31-27-00, 5/31/03, Obama Voted Yea)

The Natural Gas Tax Made Natural Gas More Expensive For Industrial Buyers Such As Manufacturers. “The natural gas tax. A new policy under Blagojevich’s budget will make natural gas more expensive to industrial buyers. Currently, Illinois offers an exemption on the sales tax paid for natural gas, but the new budget ends that exemption, a move that could become a major expense for steel mills and other factories that use large quantities of natural gas.” (Kevin McDermott, “Area Dodged Legislative Hit On Schools, Roads,” St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 6/8/03)
Obama Voted For The Natural Gas Tax, Which Threatened Jobs, At The Same Time That Illinois Was Leading The Nation In Jobs Lost. “Just as harmful to the state’s economy are the large taxes on natural gas brought from out-of-state suppliers and the rolling stock sales tax. Both of these taxes will negatively affect important businesses as well as the employees who are dependent on these Illinois companies. I have received phone calls and letters from all sectors of the business community who reported that the projected loss of revenues due to these increased taxes and fees may well cause them to close their facilities in Illinois and move to a more business-friendly surrounding state while still serving Illinois customers. Illinois leads the nation in jobs lost. We cannot afford to drive more businesses from our state.” (State Rep. Carolyn Krause, Op-Ed, “Increase Tax Incentives, Not Taxes For Businesses,” Chicago Tribune, 6/13/03)
In 1999, Obama Voted In Favor Of S.B. 1028 To Create The Illinois First Infrastructure Program, Which Raised 146 Taxes And Fees. (S.B. 1028: Senate Floor Third Reading, Passed, 58-0-0, 3/23/99, Obama Voted Yea; S.B. 1028: Senate Conference Committee Report, Passed, 42-17-0, 5/21/99, Obama Voted Yea; Editorial, “Jack Ryan Woefully Unprepared For Attack On Obama,” The State Journal-Register, 4/18/04)

OBAMA’S TAX, SPENDING AND BUSINESS INTEREST GROUP RATINGS

Obama Received A “Perfect Liberal Score” On Economic Issues From The National Journal:

“In 2006, [Obama] Was One Of 13 Senate Democrats With A Perfect Liberal Score On Economic Issues.” (Richard E. Cohen, “Left To Right,” National Journal, 3/3/07)

Obama Gets Poor Marks From Tax, Spending And Business Interest Groups:

Americans For Tax Reform Gave Obama A Lifetime Rating Of 7.5 Out Of 100. (Americans For Tax Reform Website, www.atr.org, Accessed 1/29/08)

Citizens Against Government Waste Gave Obama A Lifetime Rating Of 22 Out Of 100. (Citizens Against Government Waste, “CCAGW Challenges Presidential Candidates On Earmarks,” Press Release, 12/27/07)

The National Taxpayers Union Gave Obama A Grade Of “F” For His Fiscal Voting Record. (National Taxpayers Union Website, www.ntu.org, Accessed 9/25/07)

The U.S. Chamber Of Commerce Gave Obama A 33 Percent Rating In 2007. (U.S. Chamber Of Commerce Website, www.uschamber.com, Accessed 6/6/08)

**Pinepig** · 06-18-2008, 04:00 PM

Eric Holder, Another Member Of Obama's Vice Presidential Vetting Team, Engaged In Controversial Activity:

Eric Holder Is Another Member Of Obama's Vice Presidential Vetting Committee. "But Johnson is not the only member of Obama's vice presidential vetting committee that Republicans have targeted. They also are preparing a case against former deputy attorney general Eric Holder for his role in the granting of a pardon to fugitive financier Marc Rich in the last days of the Clinton White House." (Jonathan Weisman and David S. Hilzenrath, "Obama's Choice Of Insider Draws Fire," The Washington Post, 6/11/08)

In 2002, Eric Holder Lobbied On Behalf Of Global Crossing After The Company Had Accumulated Nearly $12 Million In Debt. "Smelling blood in the water, Republicans now plan to pounce on another member of Obama's veep-selection committee, former Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder, for his lobbying on behalf of telecom giant Global Crossing. Holder lobbied for the company, which underwent one of the largest bankruptcies in American history after racking up nearly $12 million in debt, as it emerged from bankruptcy in 2002, Senate lobbying disclosure documents reveal." (Charles Hurt and Geoff Earle, "O's Veep Hunter Quits," New York Post, 6/12/08)

Holder Was Involved In A Sweetheart Deal, Which Granted Fugitive Marc Rich A Controversial Pardon From Outgoing President Bill Clinton:

"As Deputy Attorney General, Holder Was The Key Person Who Made The Pardon Of Marc Rich Possible In The Final Hours Of The Clinton Presidency." (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)

Rich Was Under Charges Of Wire Fraud, Tax Fraud, And Illegal Trading With Iran. "[M]arc Rich, the fugitive billionaire who renounced his U.S. citizenship and moved to Switzerland to avoid prosecution for racketeering, wire fraud, 51 counts of tax fraud, evading $48 million in taxes, and engaging in illegal trades with Iran in violation of the U.S. embargo following the 1979-80 hostage crisis" (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)

To Obtain A Pardon, Rich Retained Former White House Counsel Jack Quinn, Who Circumvented Formal Pardon Application Procedures. "[R]ich wanted a pardon and he retained Jack Quinn, former counsel to the president, to lobby his old boss. ... From the start, the Rich lawyers ignored the government's established rules for pard on applications. Instead of making a formal application to the Office of Pardons in the Justice Department, Quinn sent the application directly to the White House in late December of 2007." (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)

Documents Emerged Which Indicated That Holder Had Recommended Quinn, And "Gave Substantive Advice To Quinn Along The Way." "Two days later, documents in support of the pardon were sent by Jack Quinn to Eric Holder. It was Holder who had originally recommended Quinn to one of Rich's advisers, although he claims that he did not know the identity of the client. And he gave s ubstantive advice to Quinn along the way. According to Quinn's notes that were produced to Congress, Holder told Quinn to take the pardon application 'straight to the White House' because 'the timing is good.' ... When Holder received the Rich materials, he did no independent research to determine their veracity and appears to have barely reviewed them." (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)

Holder Conducted No Independent Research To Scrutinize Quinn's Request On Behalf Of Rich. "When Holder received the Rich materials, he did no independent research to determine their veracity and appears to have barely reviewed them. ... [H]e never took the time to check anything and simply told the White House that he was 'neutral to positive' on the pardons." (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)

"Neither Clinton Nor Holder Ever Consulted With The Pardon Attorney." (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)
"Officials At The U.S. Attorney's Office In New York Were Understandably Infuriated When They Learned About The Pardon And Accused Rich Of Deliberating Bypassing Their Office." (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)

"In 2002, A Congressional Committee Reported That Holder Was A 'Willing Participant In The Plan To Keep The Justice Department From Knowing About And Opposing' The Rich Pardon." (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, "Obama's VP Search Mistake," New York Post, 6/5/08)

The Wall Street Journal: "As Deputy Attorney General in the Clinton Administration, he played a role in the Marc Rich pardon that also deserves to be fully vetted - all the more so if Mr. Holder is on the short list to be Mr. Obama's Attorney General." (Editorial, "Ex-Friends Of Barack," The Wall Street Journal, 6/12/08)

As Deputy Attorney General, Holder Also Supported Clemency For The Former FALN Members:

In August 1999, President Bill Clinton Offered Clemency To 16 Former Members Of The Puerto Rican Terrorist Group The Armed Forces Of National Liberation (FALN). "As the furor over President Clinton's recent clemency offer to 16 militant Puerto Rican nationalists continues, new evidence suggests the timing of the decision might have had more to do with the 1998 impeachment proceedings than with the First Lady's New York Senate campaign, as critics have charged. The White House also badly misjudged the repercussions of the decision on both sides of the clemency question. Though most of the critics have been the President's political enemies and police injured in FALN terrorist acts, restrictions placed on the clemency also have angered many in the Puerto Rican community and made it hard for the prisoners to accept the deal. Lawyers for the FALN members have denounced the Clinton offer as unfair. 'I don't think the President understood the reaction that Puerto Ricans would have on all sides of the issue,' said Rep. Nydia Velazquez (D-Brooklyn). The dustup began Aug. 11, when the President offered clemency to 16 former members of the FALN the Spanish acronym for Armed Forces of National Liberation which was linked to about 130 bombings that killed six and injured dozens from 1974 to 1983. The presidential offer was the culmination of a six-year campaign that began in 1993, when a Chicago lawyer filed clemency petitions for 17 imprisoned FALN members." (Edward Lewine, "How Bill Chose Clemency," [New York] Daily News, 9/5/99)

Holder Played A Major Role In The FALN Clemency Decision, According To FALN Documents And Memos. "Holder, a Barbadian immigrant's son who grew up in Queens and received his law degree from Columbia, has played major roles in the probe of Democratic funny-money in the 1996 elections, the Sexgate scandal and the recommendation to President Clinton on whether to free FALN terrorists from jail. A list of FALN documents withheld from Congress shows that many memos on the FALN clemency decision went directly to Holder, while Reno's role was minimal." (Brian Blomquist, "Ailing Reno Yielding Reins Of Justice," New York Post, 12/15/99)

Although The FBI Opposed Clemency, Holder Supported Clemency For The FALN Members. "Although The New York Times reported that the FBI, Bureau of Prisons and U.S. state attorneys opposed clemency, Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder, the Justice Department official most involved with this issue, reportedly supported clemency. 'Eric Holder told me he was recommending that,' a high-ranking official said. Ruff also supported clemency, sources said. Holder declined to comment." (Edward Lewine, "How Bill Chose Clemency," [New York] Daily News, 9/5/99)
In 1997, Holder Met With Three Members Of Congress And Made Recommendations To Them About How The FALN Members Could More Easily Be Granted Clemency. "The committee's documents show that Mr. Adams and Eric Holder, the Deputy Attorney General, met on Nov. 5, 1997, with Representative Luis V. Gutierrez, Democrat of Illinois, and Representatives Jose E. Serra no of the Bronx and Nydia M. Velazquez of Brooklyn, both Democrats, to discuss the case of the Puerto Rican inmates. According to Mr. Adams's notes, Mr. Holder told the members of Congress that because the prisoners had not applied themselves for clemency this could be taken that they were not repentant, and he suggested that a statement expressing some remorse might help. In their testimony today, both Mr. Adams and Mr. Holder declined to answer several questions about how the clemency decision was reached, citing executive privilege. Both said, however, that the Justice Department had acted appropriately throughout the process." (Neil A. Lewis, "Records Show Puerto Ricans Got U.S. Help With Clemency," The New York Times, 10/21/99)

A Subsequent Clinton Administration Justice Department Report Identified The Group As An "Ongoing Threat." "The Puerto Rican nationalist group FALN, 16 of whose members were pardoned by President Clinton in August, poses an 'ongoing threat' to national security, according to a September report by Attorney General Janet Reno released yesterday during a combative Senate hearing on the clemency decision." (David A. Vise and Lorraine Adams, "FALN A Threat, Reno Says," The Washington Post, 10/21/99)

Aw fuck it, vote for the magic man and belive in change (whatever that is)

**Vedubin01** · 06-18-2008, 04:06 PM

I wanted to start a post on what or how people will think the United States will be in say 5 and 10 years from now. It would be cool to look in the archives of R3v and find the post to see how many are off or who was right on. I understand that this is a car forum and not a political forum but its a way all of us can learn something in the off topic section.

Many of you guys see me as a Southern Redneck that is pro-gun anti-abortion right winged conservative. But those that know me I think would vouch for me that really Im just like everyone else. I enjoy cars and thats why Im here. I love debate and love to get minds thinking. I learn from what others have to say and who knows maybe I might say something that you might learn. So Dont take what I say as an attack on what you guys think and believe but just as someone else that might see things differently.

Me, I feel what ever president is elected will not make for much change. Obama I think would make more of a change but that might not all be for the better. Obama does say some really interesting things and its what the people want to hear and are thinking. But remember America was founded because the English people that left did not want a Big Government, they did not want to be told what to do and wrote a constitution that was not to be changed to protect their views. Today we have gotten away from that and government has gotten out of control. We have created a monster that continues to feed on the fabric that the constitution was founded on. Once a right or freedom is taken away, its next to impossible to ever get back.

**Julien** · 06-18-2008, 04:48 PM

seriously, touching story. Now wake up and see how america has gone down hill in the last 8 years (please find an argument against this, I look forward to your creativity)

Interesting that europeans have a strong economy/health/jobs/etc. Even with high taxes, immigration problems and terrorism and no guns... they are doing well for themselves.

I just don't see how you guys can still support Bush or the republican party, it's rediculous. Everything that has been done by the Bush administration has only benefitted a slight portion of the US population at the cost of the rest.

blah, waste of effort on my part, carry on.

Julien

**blunttech** · 06-18-2008, 04:49 PM

now that california is allowing gay marriages im heading west and will begin courting pinepig.
we think alike and i hope to make him mine

**Pinepig** · 06-18-2008, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Julien View Post

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Interesting that europeans have a strong economy/health/jobs/etc. Even with high taxes, immigration problems and terrorism and no guns... they are doing well for themselves.

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