The final "Who are you going to vote for" poll

[Old'n'Slow]

So uhhh.....

For sure. And even Palin's "Real Americans" in North Carolina apparently chose Obama.

Maybe the GOP will finally see that their brand of "old time religion" doesn't appeal to the majority of Americans that see it as devisive.

To all you "ain't skeered" types out there who bristle at the notion of more gun regulation, I understand your concern for the health of the Constitution. After all, Bush seems to have disregarded whatever parts of it that suited his agenda from time to time. Now, there's a Presidential precedent!

When it comes down to it, the GOP must decide who they are. They must revert to true conservatism.

(1.) Men and nations are governed by moral laws; and those laws have their origin in a wisdom that is more than human—in divine justice.

(2.) Variety and diversity are the characteristics of a high civilization.

(3.) Justice means that every man and every woman have the right to what is their own—to the things best suited to their own nature, to the rewards of their ability and integrity, to their property and their personality.

(4.) Property and freedom are inseparably connected; economic leveling is not economic progress.

(5.) Power is full of danger; therefore the good state is one in which power is checked and balanced, restricted by sound constitutions and customs.

(6.) The past is a great storehouse of wisdom; as Burke said, “the individual is foolish, but the species is wise.”

(7.) Modern society urgently needs true community: and true community is a world away from collectivism. Real community is governed by love and charity, not by compulsion.

(8.) In the affairs of nations, the American conservative feels that his country ought to set an example to the world, but ought not to try to remake the world in its image.

(9.) Men and women are not perfectible, conservatives know; and neither are political institutions. We cannot make a heaven on earth, though we may make a hell.

(10.) Change and reform, conservatives are convinced, are not identical: moral and political innovation can be destructive as well as beneficial; and if innovation is undertaken in a spirit of presumption and enthusiasm, probably it will be disastrous.

Until the GOP embraces true conservatism again, it's platform will be too far right for the majority of voters to embrace.

[Turf1600]

Seems? Quote me right now. Mccain will win this election.

So uhhh.....

go look up "to those with means, to those with needs"
straight out of the communist manifesto

and explain how someone who pays no taxes, and then gets money from the govt is a tax cut and not redistribution od wealth

you guys tired of a low pay dead end job? get off your ass and change for crying out loud. get a better education. move to another part of the country and quit crying. work smarter, change your life.

everyday i see vietnamese, chinese and hispanics that can hardly speak english working their asses off to get ahead. the happy to have a shot at something. government is not here to give you happiness and the american dream. its here to give you a chance.

my fucking head is going to explode

cowboy up

I have read the Communist Manifesto and I don't remember that quote. I Googled it and the only other mention of it across the entirety of the internet is from yourself on another board. http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/...106d6f09be443/

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. The whole problem is that people don't have the money for things like health care and education because it is so ridiculously expensive. You give them a small boost and it could really pay off in the long run. Bill Gates can spare a few million bucks if it means giving an opportunity to someone that may not have one.

And by the way, capitalism is not a form of government.

[gwb72tii]

That is absolutely not the definition of communism. Communism is shared ownership of the means of production. It simply means that everybody gets an equal share of the pie. This is in direct contrast to Capitalism where an overwhelming minority hold an overwhelming majority of wealth. This idea that commies are going to take all your money and give it to some drug dealing illegal immigrant is completely baseless and inconsistent with what communism really is. For some reason people fear communism because of the Cold War stereotype. The truth is that although the Soviet Union started as a communist state it quickly turned into a totalitarian dictatorship because of greedy, power mongering, sociopaths. That is where your fear comes from. Communism and thus Socialism really are wonderful ideas. I suggest you do a bit more research.

go look up "to those with means, to those with needs"
straight out of the communist manifesto

the commies were good at taking the $ and keeping it for the bastards in control, letting the people starve. like it so much holmes? try cuba or north korea for modern examples of how great communism works in the real world

and explain how someone who pays no taxes, and then gets money from the govt is a tax cut and not redistribution od wealth

you guys tired of a low pay dead end job? get off your ass and change for crying out loud. get a better education. move to another part of the country and quit crying. work smarter, change your life.

everyday i see vietnamese, chinese and hispanics that can hardly speak english working their asses off to get ahead. they're happy to have a shot at something. government is not here to give you happiness and the american dream. its here to give you a chance.

you cannot tax your way to happiness and prosperity. capitalism is full of tough choices, but its the best form of government tried so far.

my fucking head is going to explode

cowboy up

[Ral]

^^It is taken out of my paycheck. clear as day. And, there is no accountability for who gets the money and who doesn't.

except for the fact that it provides little to no incentive to work hard. And takes more money from those that do earn it.

I don't disagree with the incentive part but there are ways around that such as distributing wealth only to those that work. It also does not take money from those that earn it. You can't say money was taken when it was never actually yours in the first place.

[Ral]

except for the fact that it provides little to no incentive to work hard. And takes more money from those that do earn it.

[lowlightbw]

^true^

go look up the def of communism, comrade. taking from paul, and giving it to peter, who does nothing to earn it and pays nothing into the "system" is communism. if you're for this type of "justice", you favor communism by definition.

That is absolutely not the definition of communism. Communism is shared ownership of the means of production. It simply means that everybody gets an equal share of the pie. This is in direct contrast to Capitalism where an overwhelming minority hold an overwhelming majority of wealth. This idea that commies are going to take all your money and give it to some drug dealing illegal immigrant is completely baseless and inconsistent with what communism really is. For some reason people fear communism because of the Cold War stereotype. The truth is that although the Soviet Union started as a communist state it quickly turned into a totalitarian dictatorship because of greedy, power mongering, sociopaths. That is where your fear comes from. Communism and thus Socialism really are wonderful ideas. I suggest you do a bit more research.

[gwb72tii]

Obama doesn't want to take every American dollar then distribute it evenly, that is Socialism. He wants to take a little more from the top and send it down the ladder a bit. There are a lot of people that want to succeed but can't get ahead at all. Whether it be health care, child care, etc. they just don't have the money to do so. The idea is that a small boost will allow them to do so. You talk about selfishness and wanting to better the country. Don't you think the country would be better if everybody could actually afford health care, etc?

The truth is that the upper class is getting smaller while simultaneously accumulating a higher percentage of the wealth. The lower class is getting larger while their share of the wealth is getting smaller. Like I said before, ExxonMobile just recorded the highest profit of any company ever, yet the other 99% of us are hurting more than ever.

It is about time that we stopped being slaves to big business and stood up for our share of the pie.

taking a little from the top and send it down the ladder a bit. are you fucking kidding me?

go look up the def of communism, comrade. taking from paul, and giving it to peter, who does nothing to earn it and pays nothing into the "system" is communism. if you're for this type of "justice", you favor communism by definition.

the issue i have with o man's tax "cuts" are they aren't tax cuts at all. they're paid to people who pay no taxes at all. that is not a cut, it is redistribution of wealth.

this great country of ours was founded explicitly on the foundation of equal opportunity, that all men are created equal. that if you're a slovak, chinese, laotian or italian your nationality it does not preclude you from attaining your dreams.

o man turns this foundation on its head by trying to legislate equal outcomes regardless of input and effort. this is a major tenant of socialism.

go look at europe. they have higher unemployment, less opportunity, much slower economic growth, and are now revamping their govt's to be more like ours. at a time we're trying to become more like them. they already know single payer govt healthcare doesn't work, and by definition means rationing of health care access. why the hell are we headed down their failed paths? we know how to do it better? ever hear of Katrina anyone? europe will go through a much deeper and longer recession than us also. the old saying that when the usa catches a cold the world catches the flu is still true.

makes no sense

here's a question h0lmes. name the largest taxpayer in the world.

[Vedubin01]

240 bucks may be enough for a business license but then you have to factor in a building of some sort, equipment, employees, etc. It takes a lot of Capital to start a business and big business is really making it hard for the little guy to get ahead. Do you think that someone is going to open a mom and pop department store across the street from a Wal-Mart? No, because Wal-Mart would bury them. So instead of trying to get ahead they just give in to working for one of these companies in an attempt to scrape up enough money to raise a family.

You can work out of your house at first, and be your own employee. Does not have to be some department store, with the power of the internet you can be as big as you want it to be. If you cant afford internet, go to the library and its free there. I started a company that many of you guys today have or have had its product on your cars. We started that in a garage with only $500.

Again if you feel you need to go bigger and can read. There are tons of Government programs out there helping people start small business! In starting a business it does take a lot of sacrifice. Not eating right, pushing bills and taking a financial risk. But risk not want not!

holmes,

no argument here but even in socialist countries or ideas, there will still be classes. Just the classes will be more defined. I really don’t understand how people say they cant get ahead if they are on the bottom. Obama's aunt, the one in the news, living off government assistance still donated $240 to Obama's campaign. That’s well more than enough to incorporate a business. Though they are in a disadvantage, if your person of color, woman or anything other than a single white male. There are programs out there that will give you grant money to get something going. It takes thinking and ideas. You must be a dreamer and a problem solver. If you got any of those traits, know how to balance a budget, you might have a chance to move up the social ladder. .

Its not easy but that’s what sets successful owners apart from mindless workers

240 bucks may be enough for a business license but then you have to factor in a building of some sort, equipment, employees, etc. It takes a lot of Capital to start a business and big business is really making it hard for the little guy to get ahead. Do you think that someone is going to open a mom and pop department store across the street from a Wal-Mart? No, because Wal-Mart would bury them. So instead of trying to get ahead they just give in to working for one of these companies in an attempt to scrape up enough money to raise a family.

[Vedubin01]

holmes,

no argument here but even in socialist countries or ideas, there will still be classes. Just the classes will be more defined. I really don’t understand how people say they cant get ahead if they are on the bottom. Obama's aunt, the one in the news, living off government assistance still donated $240 to Obama's campaign. That’s well more than enough to incorporate a business. Though they are in a disadvantage, if your person of color, woman or anything other than a single white male. There are programs out there that will give you grant money to get something going. It takes thinking and ideas. You must be a dreamer and a problem solver. If you got any of those traits, know how to balance a budget, you might have a chance to move up the social ladder. .

Its not easy but that’s what sets successful owners apart from mindless workers

OK, so if I don't call it socialism will you explain to me why "spreading the wealth" will ecourage people to work hard?

Obama doesn't want to take every American dollar then distribute it evenly, that is Socialism. He wants to take a little more from the top and send it down the ladder a bit. There are a lot of people that want to succeed but can't get ahead at all. Whether it be health care, child care, etc. they just don't have the money to do so. The idea is that a small boost will allow them to do so. You talk about selfishness and wanting to better the country. Don't you think the country would be better if everybody could actually afford health care, etc?

The truth is that the upper class is getting smaller while simultaneously accumulating a higher percentage of the wealth. The lower class is getting larger while their share of the wealth is getting smaller. Like I said before, ExxonMobile just recorded the highest profit of any company ever, yet the other 99% of us are hurting more than ever.

It is about time that we stopped being slaves to big business and stood up for our share of the pie.

[Collin]

It was not until Joe the plumber, did America hear Obama openly admit that he was for spread the wealth. A socialist idea. Back in 2001 he made these same statements. I think when his transcripts are released and his thesis papers are opened up you will find that his thinking is more along the lines of the Marxist and Socialist ideas. The people that he associates himself with are influences. Just like you are influenced by people here on R3v. The old saying you are what you eat or you are who you associate yourself with is true. Obama is someone new that not much is known. The more you find the more it leans to these thoughts of Socialist and Marxist views.

He has proven if your not for him, his media campaign will cut your balls. You will be silenced and disguarded as a right wing nut tied to the BUSH administration.

I do not understand how many will shut off and not look into the substanence of this political views, ideas and promisses! It truly amazes me that the radical left that wants peace and love is more violent than their right winged counter part.

So what was the bailout that McCain voted for? I didn't realize Obama was running as the socialist candidate for president.

I am totally swayed by the people around me which is why I now completely agree with you about everything. My neighbor is a crackhead, I must smoke crack too. My current professor is a republican, I must be a republican too. My dad is a lawyer, and by proxy I can now practice law. My mom drives a school bus, so I must have a CDL too. My fiance enjoys putting on makeup, so I must be a drag queen. My best friend is italian, so I must be too. Oh my grandma loves the Lawrence Welk show, now so do I.

Guilt by association is bullshit.