McCain and Obama's tax plans laid out in a graph

[Ral]

So let's say, for the sake of argument, that I own a company one day. And, along comes someone that's going to increase my taxes by more than many people are even taxed. But all my employees are getting taxed less and less.. so why not decrease their wages by the amount they get a tax break for? They don't see any difference, so why should they complain? And since I have no reason to help my employees retire since any tax credits for 401(k) matching were removed (see other thread), that's not happening either. The so-called "windfall profits tax" isn't helping their case either. And any money I, or my company, gains on investments will be taxed at 35% so they can retire, I'll just take it out now to cover my losses. Or, I will invest in off-shore tax shelters like Switzerland or the Cayman Islands, which weren't as attractive before. And since no one will invest in my company, our cashflow has been severely restricted, so I can't afford to develop new products and in fact, had to let a bunch of our R&D guys go. Shame, they were cool to talk to and had some cool stuff, but I just can't afford to spend any more money and still make payroll for the reduced salaries of those still working here.

[rwh11385]

Poor, poor Heeter. He just doesn't realize that his Utopian vision of hands-off capitalism and unicorns and smiling babies doesn't exist. The world isn't a perfect, self-balancing and self-regulating place. It doesn't work like that, and apparently everyone knows it but you. So put down the econ book from the 19th century and join reality :)

Put down the bong and join reality.

[DarkWing6]

^^You forgot about minimum wage. You can't lower the wage of the people at the bottom, especially when the gov't keeps increasing it.

[rwh11385]

So let's say, for the sake of argument, that I own a company one day. And, along comes someone that's going to increase my taxes by more than many people are even taxed. But all my employees are getting taxed less and less.. so why not decrease their wages by the amount they get a tax break for? They don't see any difference, so why should they complain? And since I have no reason to help my employees retire since any tax credits for 401(k) matching were removed (see other thread), that's not happening either. The so-called "windfall profits tax" isn't helping their case either. And any money I, or my company, gains on investments will be taxed at 35% so they can retire, I'll just take it out now to cover my losses. Or, I will invest in off-shore tax shelters like Switzerland or the Cayman Islands, which weren't as attractive before. And since no one will invest in my company, our cashflow has been severely restricted, so I can't afford to develop new products and in fact, had to let a bunch of our R&D guys go. Shame, they were cool to talk to and had some cool stuff, but I just can't afford to spend any more money and still make payroll for the reduced salaries of those still working here.

Well played. Ignorant hippie liberals with no business knowledge, EAD

+1 min wage

[eurostyl e30]

That's what I thought.

On noes, what's the liberal academic going to say? That the nation will be better off with redistribution of wealth from those who worked hard for it to those who do not care to take the same responsibility? Great idea there comrade. Go hit those books and maybe you can tutor someone for European history and be of use.

Not everyone has to go to college, but people should realize they are worth what they are worth and become of some value to the nation and know their value in the world.... not simply wait for someone to scoop them up and make them successful. There are risks to making certain choices in life and people have to deal with those, not have the government make them go away. It's not the government's responsibility to determine who is too successful, like they want to do with oil companies, and punish them for doing well. If you want to punish success, you will simply encourage the status quo or failure. It does not matter if you slack off, don't try, or don't care if the government is going to bail you out.

Heeter, when your GOP takes hold again and you can finally have that trickle-down golden shower with your buddies from the Bank Of America branch office, you can take solace in the fact that your condo will be located in a sea of urban/suburban decay.

Your theories on success as the end result of freewheelin', good ol' American populist competition are precluded by existing economic disparity. Yes, disparity exists. You can go examine it up close if you stray from your next bar crawl and end up in a neighborhood the tour buses don't roll through.

[rwh11385]

Heeter, when your GOP takes hold again and you can finally have that trickle-down golden shower with your buddies from the Bank Of America branch office, you can take solace in the fact that your condo will be located in a sea of urban/suburban decay.

Your theories on success as the end result of freewheelin', good ol' American populist competition are precluded by existing economic disparity. Yes, disparity exists. You can go examine it up close if you stray from your next bar crawl and end up in a neighborhood the tour buses don't roll through.

And you can be sparking a bong in a flat black VW wondering why you can't get a job with a poli sci degree.

[kylebes1]

There are two sides to this thread.

One that says liberals suck I am keeping what is mine and all that is mine even if I take it from you.

The other is not as liberal as the first group makes them out to be, and wants to work toward a greater good.

Both groups see the whole, one chooses give a hand the other chooses to give a finger.

[eurostyl e30]

And you can be sparking a bong in a flat black VW wondering why you can't get a job with a poli sci degree.

Woah guy, you're straying farther from your message than McCain's campaign has.

[rwh11385]

You're clueless kylebes. Plenty of people give a hand, but don't like some big brother reaching into their wallet to tell them what to support, especially when it comes at the risk of business and success of America.

What will happen if taxes are drummed up to pay more to the people who don't work hard and spend more than they have and we loosen up their obligations because they don't feel like it? Where is THAT money coming from? From success and decreasing the incentive to be that. And it will make our companies even more uncompetitive and then there will be more layoffs and more hardships. The companies will go to where it is competitive and American productivity is only worth so much (especially when laziness is encouraged because the government will be there with a ready hand-out).

[DarkWing6]

Both groups see the whole, one chooses give a hand the other chooses to give a finger.

Whoooh buddy! I think you are stretching that a bit. To use your analogy, I'd like to give a hand, but the government cuts it off, takes 4 fingers for itself, then gives the last finger to someone who needs (or someone that is taking advantage of the system).

With that said, I give a lot. I can comfortably say that my wife and I easily give 15%+ of our income. On top of the money I give, I give a lot of time.

The government is one of the most poorly run, ineffecient organizations. There is sooo much money wasted it is crazy. That is why I am for privatizing a lot of this stuff. Instead of having the government take my money and use it poorly. Let me give to the March of Dimes, LiveStrong, Salvation Army, the local church, etc so they can use it wisely. Cut out the middle man.

I think you underestimate the good in people and overestimate the good in our politicians.

[devonjordan]

Whoooh buddy! I think you are stretching that a bit. To use your analogy, I'd like to give a hand, but the government cuts it off, takes 4 fingers for itself, then gives the last finger to someone who needs (or someone that is taking advantage of the system).

With that said, I give a lot. I can comfortably say that my wife and I easily give 15%+ of our income. On top of the money I give, I give a lot of time.

The government is one of the most poorly run, ineffecient organizations. There is sooo much money wasted it is crazy. That is why I am for privatizing a lot of this stuff. Instead of having the government take my money and use it poorly. Let me give to the March of Dimes, LiveStrong, Salvation Army, the local church, etc so they can use it wisely. Cut out the middle man.

I think you underestimate the good in people and overestimate the good in our politicians.

Definitely!

[rwh11385]

I think you underestimate the good in people and overestimate the good in our politicians.

Well said. Maye Kyle is just projecting. Maybe he doesn't know that people do good things to help others WITHOUT needing the government to intervene. Shrug, it was good for me to not spend spring break 07 doing beer pongs in florida but rather helping school houses in a third world country with AFC, or it was great to make an impact on my campus by inventing, managing, and hosting a charity event. It doesn't mean I can't work hard, manage my finances, want low taxes too, all while giving back to what I care for.

What makes America great... which it still lasts, is that NPOs, private giving of time and $ helps people and we don't rely so much on the government as other places. We give away more than twice as much per capita as the citizens of even the most generous European nations. And then it's personal, and we have the liberty to give to what we care about. If the government takes away that freedom and 300 million people get to say what happens to my money, I am discouraged and might get less motivated to do something with the remaining money.

DarkWing has different concerns that I do. I don't give a crap about his church, personally, and maybe I am concerned with the children's hospital in my area or Susan G. Komen... and I have the liberty to make a difference with a check or my time, without having Uncle Sam, or Comrade Sam, tell me that X of my paycheck is going to A,B,C,D,E,F cause or persons.

[DarkWing6]

While your at it Kyle, look up the giving records of Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin. As a percentage and as a whole McCain/Palin blow them out of the water.

See who really wants to help out those in need. Personal giving means leagues more to me than what they say they will give of MY money.

[z31maniac]

I'm not even going to bother addressing anything else in the thread as heeter has owned most of you already.

One that says liberals suck I am keeping what is mine and all that is mine even if I take it from you.

What the fuck are the republicans taking from your worthless unable to hold a fucking food service job ass?

Give me a fucking break. Go out and accomplish something for yourself instead of begging for the gubments to give you a helping hand.

[rwh11385]

I believe a real problem in this country isn't the middle class getting squeezed, but the middle class being pissed they can consume more by choice. When was the last time people focused on being frugal or living intelligently below their means? How many people who have okay jobs ever are conservative when it comes to newer cars, new phones, new HDTVs, new computers, new clothes, etc. etc or eating out all the time, even fast food. Are the people whining about their $35,000 jobs making ever meal at home and watching basic cable? Or are they getting prepared food and drinking and watching Entourage? Or being pissed their SUV gets shitty mpg while downing $4/gal gas? Teachers usually know hot to be on tight budgets and admit it... or marry for money. But not the average American, they typically bitch at "corporate america" to complain about their situation, ask the politicians, like Obama, for tax cuts, or blame immigrants for competing with them!

A troubling graphic is the % contributions for charities falls as income goes up, which means for those middle class people... consumption is going up much more than their needs

http://www.portfolio.com/graphics/2008/02/Alms-From-the-Working-Class