Interesting line in the final stimulus plan

[Hallen]

Sorry, but I think it is about something else.

1) Power
From which springs money.

The people who think that big corporations, etc are behind this one world government thing are probably fooling themselves because they think that idea ties to money. It doesn't. It ties to power.

The Dems wanted to push this package through quickly for two reasons.
1) They know the economy will recover and they want to make sure their package is in place first so they can point to it and say "that's what turned things around. Without us, we would have entered a depression. Please kiss our butts now and vote more of us in for the next election". (eg, trying to grab more power)
2) The bill lines up mostly with their socialist style agenda in that government must control everything because private business is evil because people are inherently greedy and unethical.

It's as simple as that. These are the main reasons behind this bill. I do think that the Dem's do truly think they are doing some good here for the economy. (I of course think that they are horribly misguided, but that is beside the point) They really believe that government spending like this helps the economy. However, I bet they just use that to rationalize what they are doing. They know it really ties back to my 2 points.

[Garageaholic]

Is it really so horrible that they are building stronger bridges?

You don't get it.

Let the PEOPLE decide what should be fixed and what should stay. Not the Gov't.

In a truly capatilistic society, gov't would not have bailed out the banks and the auto industry. The gov't isn't allowing the shitty companies to fail so better people can come in and take over....

Gov't money won't fix the problem, it will perpetuate it.

Example: auto industry
You need to let these companies go bankrupt. We need to allow the ones that failed to go out of business so that more competent managers can come in and run these plants more efficiently and build cars that the american people want to drive.

[mrsleeve]

Example: auto industry
You need to let these companies go bankrupt. We need to allow the ones that failed to go out of business so that more competent managers can come in and run these plants more efficiently and build cars that the american people want to drive.

Hey they were building the cars people want to drive, 1 year ago you could not keep a full size SUV or truck on the lot. Then gas went to 4 bucks a gallon and people panicked, and you could not find a mid size or car period that got good mileage on a lot.

Now people that want to buy a new car or truck, they cant as the banks are not getting off all the TARP money we gave to them to lend.

You need to look at the way things really were/are with the auto industry, and stop listening to the people crying global warming and that the big 3 dont make cars that people dont want. They would have died 100 years ago if they mad what people would not buy.

Just because you and your climate change kooks in NY and CA want a little shit box that gets 90mpg and is smaller than the box my work boots come in, dose 0-60 in just shy of a week, and cant drive out of a wet paper bag, dose not mean that the rest of the country wants or has use for the same thing.

I dont know about you but 99.9% of the people I know want trucks and SUV's and dont worry about the price of fuel because its what they want and need to drive.

[der affe]

Wow this sounds like a loaded question LOL. Well the way I see it its a classic case of "do as I say not as I do" EG.... good ol Nan Pelosi flying in her tax money funded 727 or 777 or some fucking huge airliner back and forth to CA every week end, but yet screem's carbon foot print the sky is falling Global Warming.

Then there are those out there that subscribe to the NWO (new world order) one world government and that NATO and the EU are the pre cursors to that end . So the ones who stand to gain are the ruling class and the hugely wealthy Financiers, that some out there contend have been pulling the strings for 75 years toward this new form of govt. The name that top this list are the English royal family, Rothechilds (old school British aristocracy), Rockefeller's, the Bush and clinton clans, and many more that I cant think of. The idea is that the US populace is what stands in the way of this lofty goal, due to our pesky feeling of entitlement to the freedoms afforded us in the US Constitution, and all of us gun owners that may not go so quietly into this new way of life. Along with that pesky Constitution it self.

Now I for one dont buy into all this cloak and dagger conspiracy stuff, I am just aware of some of the theories that are floating all over the net. Lots of wild shit out there.


The way this spenda polloza bill was rammed down our throats there must be so much in there that they dont want the people to know about, form the huge debt that out great grand kids will be paying off, to the socialized health care provisions that allow for invasion of privacy and violation of the DR. Patient privilege to the US govt. dictating the care your doctor can give you.


Remeber its about power and power is control of the people.

Its all about control.

If you control the

1. Oil
2. Health care
3. Right to bear arms
4. Food

you control the people.

How do you control oil? From other countries.
How do you control health care? Give it to the government.
How do you control the right to bear arms? Take em.
How do you control food? Take away the right to bear arms.
How do you control people? Make them weak and dependent on the government

i didn't really mean it as a loaded question. my roommate is all about the NOW stuff, so i know about all that already. if you have a more than cursory knowledge of WWII history, you could draw lines to the begining of National Socialism. if you go for that, then who stands to benefit form all the new socialist ideals and policies, other than the NWO? actual people, groups, etc that would be. something that each of you should think about and come to your own conclusions.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Look like I said I dont buy into all that NWO cloak and dagger bull shit, just saying I was aware the some do and my very limited knowledge on that subject.

[jrhaile]

You are such a waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles ass cock sucker. Such a typical fag assed response. Go wake up your little brother and tug his snake for him ass bandit. Why don't you meat me under the bridge and cradle my balls on your chin. I get home and have to read your fudge factory response to this thread. Join the real world cock gobbler and F off.

The gov fucked things up during the great depression with the New Ass Pounding. Hey gov, Fuck off, nobody likes you; why don't you go cry in the corner. The government is so entrenched with d bags who don't care about shit other than National Pork History Museums and maintaining there places in the gov so that they can feel special. Why not just bash your head into a wall and then you'll be really special like actual retards.

A++++ Post would read again

[mikeedler]

You don't get it.

Let the PEOPLE decide what should be fixed and what should stay. Not the Gov't.

I am def. not a gov. type of person, actually pretty stupid about the whole thing.

but.................................... isnt that why we elect a government??? to make these decisions???wtf??

[Hallen]

I am def. not a gov. type of person, actually pretty stupid about the whole thing.

but.................................... isnt that why we elect a government??? to make these decisions???wtf??

Yes, we have a representative form of government. They are supposed to make these decisions because it is impractical to have a national vote for everything. They are supposed to represent the will of the people but also, and maybe more importantly, have a level of ethics that drives them to protect national interests and to vote for what is right and best in the long term. I don't see a whole lot of ethics in place up there. But, we keep voting the same schmucks into office... and that's possibly because only a schmuck would want the job.

Partisan politics aside, this bill is a prime example of the nepotism, fear mongering, meddling and unethical representation that we have in office.

If all of these items in this bill were really necessary and prudent, then fine, vote on every single one of them as separate items. If they are important, they will stand on their own. But that concept terrifies these dirt bags in Washington because they know most of this stuff wouldn't stand up to the scrutiny if they did so.

[dirty30]

People will have to die before they actually do anything about the bridges and roads....

Minneapolis.

[nataku83]

I'll admit that I didn't read the second two pages of this thread, but I found this graphic which appears to be from a reasonably reputable source showing the percentage of heavy vs. light vehicles sold since 1976, and while perhaps vehicle weight hasn't gone up that much, the number of heavy vehicles being purchased has

http://www.americanscientist.org/Lib...03WenzelF2.jpg

Anyway, I'd love some nice clean pavement, I have to baby my bike while riding around Houston so I don't wipe out every time I hit a patch of broken pavement.

[Charlie]

You don't get it.

Let the PEOPLE decide what should be fixed and what should stay. Not the Gov't.

Yeeeeaaaa, no.

You ever seen how a PTA or a homeowner's association is run? We'd have 15 bridges collapsing a day with gravel paved roads while every one of their offices has a 60 inch plasma.

The whole libertarian argument dies when you realize that small governments are usually 100x worse than a big one. No one wants to spend money on infrastructure, it isn't sexy.

In a truly capitalistic society, gov't would not have bailed out the banks and the auto industry. The gov't isn't allowing the shitty companies to fail so better people can come in and take over....

Sounds nice in a textbook, doesn't work when global economic collapse is the result of "letting shitty companies fail". There are no "smart" companies anymore, especially banks. There are no "better" people, only a bunch of glorified day-trading retards.

Gov't money won't fix the problem, it will perpetuate it.

Please explain to me how the complete collapse of the financial system and 35-40% (easily) unemployment will "fix" the problem and allow this utopian capatilist society to grow, please.

Example: auto industry
You need to let these companies go bankrupt. We need to allow the ones that failed to go out of business so that more competent managers can come in and run these plants more efficiently and build cars that the american people want to drive.

Next time, do a *little* research on the state of the big 2.5, as well as the plans & restructuring they've done in the past 5 years. I implore you, really. Because otherwise, making statements like this really make you look clueless.

-Charlie

[E30 Cabrio]

Congress and Senate got a copy of the bill at 12:00 midnight, and voted on it the next day after only 90 minutes of deliberation. The bill was over 1000 pages long, and 8 inches thick. There were handwritten notes in the margins, some figures changed last minute from $100 million, scribbled out and $150 million in its place. Even one earmark that literally allocated $1.5B for "Science". WTF does that mean? Not one person read the bill.

No one had time to even read it as promised by Obama. Even congress/senate unanimously wanted it to sit for 48 hrs before a vote, but Nancy Pelosi and Barack got their way. All this oversight and transparency, and I haven't even seen a lick of it.

Yep. nObama promised "transparency" and claimed the bill would be posted online for public viewing for 48 hours.

Then, because Pelosi had to take a trip, the vote was rushed but then the bill won't be signed until after the holiday weekend.

nObama made all these promises and has broken most of them, but not a peep from the MSM

We've been hoodwinked, big time.

Next up, the "Fairness Doctrine" which will only apply to talk radio in an effort to silence dissent.

Then, a "Supermajority" of Dems and the repeal of the 22nd Amendment so Obama can be Dictator for life, much like Chavez.

BTW, where is this money going to come from?

Are we going to borrow it?

Print it?

Raise taxes?

Gee, Obama failed to mention that.

Maybe because no one in the MSM bothered to ask him.

[delatlanta1281]

Centuries old water main, LOL thats funny, 99.9999% of these were dug up between the 30's-50's. I have seen a small 100' section of wood water main that was still in service till we replaced it. But yes the stuff thats in the ground since the the 60's or longer needs to come out as much of that is lead joint water main,


And streesed under the weight of our SUV's Give me a fucking break, what was did the average car weigh 35+ years ago???? The only thing that comes close are HD pick ups and surburbans and excursions weighing in at over 5300lbs.

Money: You are right on with you assessment.

BS do your research. atlanta is in the middle of a huge water and sewer revamp.
It spans the entire city.

[Farbin Kaiber]

BTW, where is this money going to come from?

Are we going to borrow it?

Print it?

Raise taxes?

Gee, Obama failed to mention that.

Maybe because no one in the MSM bothered to ask him.

Yep.

[Hellabad]

Yep. nObama promised "transparency" and claimed the bill would be posted online for public viewing for 48 hours.

Actually, Obama promised "Any Bill" would be posted on the internet for 5 days.

Next up, the "Fairness Doctrine" which will only apply to talk radio in an effort to silence dissent.

Again, not to argue, but to emphasize your point: The Fairness Doctrine does not apply to "talk radio" per se, but applies to "Commercial Radio" which conveniently eliminates any consideration of NPR.


Jay