Address to Congress

[E30 Cabrio]

You say "socialist" like it's a dirty word. It works in Europe, quite well actually.

Tell that to the people in the 90% tax bracket who are fleeing in droves.

What happens when you run out of other peoples money?

[mrsleeve]

1st KenCoppwheet: I know how the cost of the those that cant cover the bills get covered. Thats one of the reasons all the illegals need to go. I know a few doctors as well and a few people in the medical fileds as well (prolly not as many as you) My mother inlaw is a nurse and my cousin is about to finish medical school. Also talk to some docs that are specialists in any given field, they are scared shitless as all their patient base will be gone because the govt thinks you dont need that type of doctoring. Yes something need to be to address the issues with insurance and here is any easy one that will lower the price, improve service, Deregulate the health insurance market. Allow people that have to buy it to go across state lines to get their insurance, this will increase the competition in the market place and reduce the cost over all and improve the service if some of these companies want to stay in business (BTW I pay 1124 dollars a month for my and the little woman's health care mine I get through my job but the monthly premium is charged to me at an hourly rate, and I have to buy hers out right for 504 a month) SO yes I think something needs to be done to lower the costs of heath care but a national socialized health care is not the way to do it it will cost all of us much more in the long run. Do you really want you heath to be run by the GOVT. They have a hard time running 2 small wars and themselves simultaneously how the fuck do you think the health care system is going to work with all the bureaucratic red tape, miss management, and inefficiency that comes with govt???

No I am not a hard core Right wing Republican, pine pig said it best, I agree with many of the things on both sides and of the isle but right now I disagree with nearly everything Obama, and the current crop of DEMS is up to, has to say and is doing, We need only to look to history to see where this is heading and I think by the time its all over Hover and Obama will be synonymous with depression and hard times Govt miss management mass unemployment an hard times in general. Thats if we dont continue on this road toward the hammer and sickle What say you comrades of Obama?????????????

Oh I may watch fox news a bit but its not a gospel to me.

[Pinepig]

You say "socialist" like it's a dirty word. It works in Europe, quite well actually.

Please stop posting before you divide by zero.

[wannaBMthree]

Obama is an amazing orator... How the hell does he remember an hour long speech? I did however have a hard time focusing on Mr. President because Nancy Pelosi is such an annoying dumb bitch! She was on some serious crack.

Nancy..... "Barack really is gonna cure cancer!"


Ra Ra

[h0lmes]

Please educate us.

Seriously.

Educate yourself. I will say that GDP and job creation take on completely different meanings under socialism.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Get a job, earn a living for your self and family for a while, then go back and reevaluate that statement.

[Hallen]

it's just funny trying to put all blame on Carter and Clinton for this, you are really reaching and obviously a Fox and Rush Fan... you do really need to research abit...
Yes, Clinton did sign in the bills that are partly responsible but remember they were Republican Bills that he signed so equal share goes to them too...
This is just Reagannomics running it's full course, plain and simple, trickle down doesn't work and the tax cut train of thought is just plain idiotic...
Health Costs have risen at 4x's the rate that incomes have, this is not acceptable... health care costs are responsible for a new bankruptcy every 30 secs...
this is not acceptable....

Point #1, never believe a pole done by CNN. Their sample set is always small and generally self selecting. In other words, they are generally skewed.

Point #2, why is it that whenever a guy on here with a man crush on the big BO instantly accuses the dissenter with being a "Fox and Rush fan"? Then, that same fanboy will go on to spew the liberal party line without having a clue what the stuff they are saying really means. Fox News is fine. Fox commentary shows are entertainment. The same thing with Rush. If you can think for yourself, then there is no influence. On the other hand, your statements basically prove that you can't think for yourself and you don't use critical thinking skills.

Trickle down economics doesn't work because it doesn't exist. It is a name fabricated by socialists to denounce capitalism. Having a favorable climate for business and for people who actually make money in the private sector does nothing to subjugate poor people and people who won't work. However, high taxes and unfriendly laws against business do subjugate hard working people all across the nation. Forcing us to pay more taxes to support those who don't work is subjugation. It is also very bad for the economy and brings everybody down. It is simple economics.

Reaganomics, as you put it, was a simple example of allowing people to achieve their goals and to do with their lives that which they were capable of doing. This has lead to a very strong economy for many years. Reagan's low taxation, business and investment friendly, and smaller government model were the things that helped us grow the economy. This mortgage thing didn't get really bad until the last few years.

The deal with the mortgage "crisis" is very simple. Government stepped in and started using mortgage loans as a political tool to keep themselves in office. They passed ridiculous regulations and forced a climate where natural forces (competition and greed) where left unchecked and in fact, bad practices were mandated. Fire is a useful tool. However, you have to keep it in check and you can't let it run wild. That is exactly what the government did. They set a fire and then sat back and let it run wild.

There is a lot of blame to go around in all of this. However, one thing I will guarantee you Obama will not do. He won't go after the stooges in Congress that forced all of this on us. Why? Because it is too politically dangerous for him to do that. He'll put the blame on "Wall Street" and he will be partially right. However, the real blame lies with our own government meddling in the free market in a way that was criminal.

[Hallen]

Obama is an amazing orator... How the hell does he remember an hour long speech? I did however have a hard time focusing on Mr. President because Nancy Pelosi is such an annoying dumb bitch! She was on some serious crack.

Ever heard of a teleprompter??? You don't think that the TV news airheads memorize their entire presentation do you?

No, Obama is an amazing teleprompter reader. His words are still empty. His speech writing staff use all the misdirection and partial-truth tricks that the bad side of marketing uses. If you know what to listen for and understand the words, then you start understanding that it sounds great... but it doesn't mean anything.

What he means and what he says are two different things. When you understand what he is leading up to, wow... it's scary. I suspect he knows what he is saying is pure bullshit but thinks that we are all so stupid that we will believe it. He's a politician people! He isn't your favorite movie actor that you think is a real hero. This guy is not a hero, he isn't real. He has conned you and you are still thanking him for doing it.

[h0lmes]

Ever heard of a teleprompter??? You don't think that the TV news airheads memorize their entire presentation do you?

No, Obama is an amazing teleprompter reader. His words are still empty. His speech writing staff use all the misdirection and partial-truth tricks that the bad side of marketing uses. If you know what to listen for and understand the words, then you start understanding that it sounds great... but it doesn't mean anything.

What he means and what he says are two different things. When you understand what he is leading up to, wow... it's scary. I suspect he knows what he is saying is pure bullshit but thinks that we are all so stupid that we will believe it. He's a politician people! He isn't your favorite movie actor that you think is a real hero. This guy is not a hero, he isn't real. He has conned you and you are still thanking him for doing it.

Watch out guys, OBAMA IS TRICKING YOU! HE IS THE ANTI-CHRIST!

[BDK]

Point #1, never believe a pole done by CNN. Their sample set is always small and generally self selecting. In other words, they are generally skewed

Use whatever poll you want but most are showing same results, the CNN Poll was close and handy to counter the point made that people here were wanting to destroy their TV's over his speech,
both sides admit that the speech itself was an excellent speech..... For a Go Team Speech it was Top Notch...

Point #2, why is it that whenever a guy on here with a man crush on the big BO instantly accuses the dissenter with being a "Fox and Rush fan"? Then, that same fanboy will go on to spew the liberal party line without having a clue what the stuff they are saying really means. Fox News is fine. Fox commentary shows are entertainment. The same thing with Rush. If you can think for yourself, then there is no influence. On the other hand, your statements basically prove that you can't think for yourself and you don't use critical thinking skills.

Fox Programming I like, their news is more entertainment than news.
As far as Rush goes,
he is an entertainer I give you that but he is a big blow hard too and you have to admit that if any liberal host had "hoped that Bush would fail" on day one of his term, the country would have called for his head...
If you can truly think for yourself, I commend you, and you would be a rare breed for that side of the fence...
as far as influence, Rush seems to be the head of the Republican Party and it sure seems like the Repubs in Washington take cues from him or atleast look to him and the Dittoheads to get a pulse from the mainstream repub base....
Critical thinking...
If you are true capitalist, then should we not just let every business including banks, big or small, to go under due to their over leveraging of assets and credit?
If so, where would that leave us? Better? Worse?
Eventhough, I do believe it to be the best for capitalism, it would bring about such a depression to this country, I don't know if we could survive it as a nation.
Yes, new business would rise from the ashes of the old, but the time between the collapse and the rebirth would be much too long and the nation would truly see a bottom which we have not seen since The Great Depression or the Dustbowl Days.
Your thoughts?

as far as this...

He has conned you and you are still thanking him for doing it.

we have to give the man a chance, 4 yrs from now, maybe I will feel the same as you but for now, I, we have no other choice, he was elected and like him or not, he has the greatest of all challenges to deal with...
I say let him run with it, give him all the rope he needs, maybe he sees something no one else does but give him the rope to do it with, worse case he will hang himself with it and those who wanted it will be able to say I told you so...
but we have to give him a chance and give him our support and the tools to do it with...

[z31maniac]

Educate yourself. I will say that GDP and job creation take on completely different meanings under socialism.

So basically you're saying you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Way to act like a religious zealot when asked for proof by countering "prove me wrong."

I really hope you aren't a representative sample of the PNW, icoyld make a ton of money up there with what I do, but it wouldn't be worth it to deal with uneducated, borderline retarded fuck-ups like you.

[h0lmes]

So basically you're saying you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Way to act like a religious zealot when asked for proof by countering "prove me wrong."

I really hope you aren't a representative sample of the PNW, icoyld make a ton of money up there with what I do, but it wouldn't be worth it to deal with uneducated, borderline retarded fuck-ups like you.

Yes, when I tell you to educate yourself, what I am really saying is that I have no idea what I am talking about. :loco:

I'd love to talk with you but it is apparent, through your harsh language and name calling, that you do not have the necessary skills, or knowledge for that matter, to have a mature debate with me. Good day sir.

[z31maniac]

I do, im asking you to educate all us intellectual inadequates on Socialism and it's benefits to which you replied, "educate yourself," seems kinda like saying "No comment."

[Hallen]

Use whatever poll you want but most are showing same results, the CNN Poll was close and handy to counter the point made that people here were wanting to destroy their TV's over his speech,
both sides admit that the speech itself was an excellent speech..... For a Go Team Speech it was Top Notch...



Fox Programming I like, their news is more entertainment than news.
As far as Rush goes,
he is an entertainer I give you that but he is a big blow hard too and you have to admit that if any liberal host had "hoped that Bush would fail" on day one of his term, the country would have called for his head...
If you can truly think for yourself, I commend you, and you would be a rare breed for that side of the fence...
as far as influence, Rush seems to be the head of the Republican Party and it sure seems like the Repubs in Washington take cues from him or atleast look to him and the Dittoheads to get a pulse from the mainstream repub base....
Critical thinking...
If you are true capitalist, then should we not just let every business including banks, big or small, to go under due to their over leveraging of assets and credit?
If so, where would that leave us? Better? Worse?
Eventhough, I do believe it to be the best for capitalism, it would bring about such a depression to this country, I don't know if we could survive it as a nation.
Yes, new business would rise from the ashes of the old, but the time between the collapse and the rebirth would be much too long and the nation would truly see a bottom which we have not seen since The Great Depression or the Dustbowl Days.
Your thoughts?

as far as this...


we have to give the man a chance, 4 yrs from now, maybe I will feel the same as you but for now, I, we have no other choice, he was elected and like him or not, he has the greatest of all challenges to deal with...
I say let him run with it, give him all the rope he needs, maybe he sees something no one else does but give him the rope to do it with, worse case he will hang himself with it and those who wanted it will be able to say I told you so...
but we have to give him a chance and give him our support and the tools to do it with...

BTW, the last part there wasn't really aimed specifically at you. I was just ranting at some of the Obama supporters in general.

I disagree about the Go Team thing. Again, his tone, cadence and delivery are great. The meaning behind his words are terrifying, at least to me.

Republicans in congress don't take their cues from Rush. Good grief. Rush is a pampas blowhard. He is often over the line. Yet he and O'Riley and others, even though they are more extreme about a number of things than the majority of conservatives out there, still are just voicing a lot of the frustration and fears of the fiscal conservative base in this country. They take legitimate concerns and blow them up into something with entertainment value. It gets noticed and that is what their game is about. BTW, I don't listen to Rush much. But he does crack me up sometimes.

I'll answer your next question by asking a question: What do you mean by over leveraging? Really, how do you gauge that? What is the measure that is used?

I initially thought that we shouldn't and couldn't let those banks fail because of the disaster that it would have caused to our economy. Now I am not so sure. I hate the idea of the government bailing out failed businesses and I really hate the government owning parts of those businesses. However, given that it was government policy that formed the environment for this whole mess, then the government does bear some of the responsibility. Unfortunately, that means the our tax dollars are going to companies who screwed the pooch.

I think that letting those companies fail may have been a better path. I think it would have forced a reckoning and it would have forced a lot of these "poison pills" out into the open. It would have hurt a lot of people. But I think we would be through the worst of it by now. Other banks would have stepped up and bought the "good" assets of the failed banks. The rest of that stuff would probably land on the governments desk to take care of. A whole lot of property would revert to government ownership. In the longer run, it would have cost us a lot less to do it this way and I think it would have had positive effects much quicker.

Go out and try to get a loan right now. If you have perfect credit, you are going to pay a high fee for the loan. If you have less than perfect credit, you won't get the loan at all. It is this frozen loan market that is killing us. The banks can't legally loan out more money than they have already because of those stupid government policies (it has to do with how the loan is valued as an asset, look it up). So, they don't make many loans and those that they do, they charge high rates on.

If we had let the bad banks fail, the good banks would have been in a stronger position and would have snapped up the good assets strengthening their financial position. Plus, the need for loans provided by the failed banks before would now come to the good banks. Lots more opportunity there for the good banks. They would have then started loaning money again.

Anyway, we'll never know will we? We have never let these big institution business really fail so we never know.

As far as giving Obama a chance... yeah, I will. He is my president, like it or not. I don't want him to fail (which is what the conservative pundits say as well). However, I also don't want him to implement a lot of the stuff he talks about either. I think his policies and plans will have devastating effects on our country for years to come. With his near total control of both the executive and legislative branches of the government, it is a very scary proposition. So, if he talks sense, I will give him a chance. If he keeps talking the blather that he has been, then there is no such thing as giving him a chance because he is talking about bad ideas that have no chance of making things better.

[deansbimmer]

I gotta say, I've seen nothing of substance come from "holmes" keyboard.

Full of empty rhetoric and passionate promises...Just like Obama's pep talk- err...speach. The reps response was terrible too. Decent substance but pathetic delivery.

Slightly OT, it is our duty to voice any displeasure to our representatives. Last time I checked this is still a government that represents the people. This whole nonsense about "well, he's the president now, let it run its course" crap is no good. They are not our rulers and everyone should make their voices heard. Frankly I think he and his have been given too much rope. So far, he has signed for more of which I am fundamentally against, than that which I am for. It is our responsibility to gather information and dissect what is happening in the world because no news media will do it for you. Sadly, we are in the state we're in because of the sore misinformation that has fooled our country's ignorant.