concealed carry

[Victell]

Faulty logic. The crime rate of CCW holders is minuscule compared to the general public.

You can look it up if you want, but I'm 100% correct on this.

Edit: Here ya go:

http://www.txchia.org/sturdevant2000.htm#2000chart

Faulty support. Your stats represent current ccw holders, which I assume is a well regulated and background-researched group. I was referring to the post which suggested all of our jackass citizens and neighbors should have ccws. You know, the majority of people. Like the majority that voted for Obama. Surely you wouldnt want those irresponsible people carrying guns around all the time. Plaxico almost darwined himself even without the permit.

[eurotrashm20]

Edit: New guy above me: Religious dose not mean anti gun. My inlaws extended families are like the amish with cars and electricity (minus the tv or sin box as they call it) but they all have more arms and ammo in the house than South african Arms dealer.

LOL ... yeah that is what I meant that it might not make sense because I am the one that knows them. They are pacifists (kinda). They BELIEVED that it was not their place or right to take a life under any circumstance.
Religious definitely doesn't mean anti gun. My former boss is ultra religious and he has enough weaponry (the good stuff lol) to arm his town.

[Raxe]

The stereotypical conservative is both heavily religious and pro-gun.

Just sayin'

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not religious in the least, but yes very pro gun, very pro small govt.

[Victell]

Dude I want to see the stats on this, The AWB was shown Statistically to have done nothing to lower crime rates.

Yes and no. Depends on who's study you want to look at. Seems like lobbies on both sides are manipulating data and arguing with statistics. Those stats are national and do not focus solely on Los Angeles, which I did. I'm going off what i see and hear; i dont know of anybody anymore that has an ak and havent heard about an LA ak shooting in years. Anecdotal and all. I do believe enforcement of law had a great impact as well.

You want to knwo how crime have been committed with an assault weapon in this country since the 50's. 2 thats it 2 one was a cop with a department owned weapon, and I dont remember the other one atm.

Murder is a crime. I think there have been more than 2 murders via assault weapons since the 50s. Unless you live in a cave and your cave's internet firewall only allows nra websites.


This entire gun control argument is null anyways. Same as drug legalization debate. In our America there are two sides that feel two ways about it. Federal policy and more importantly enforcement will always strike a balance between the two camps of what voters want.

Law enforcement, whether its federal, state, or local will always reflect its populace's voting and bitching. Law enforcement really doesnt care what is legal or illegal, as long as it isnt causing death, crime, or community outrage.

When shit hits the fan, like LA's nationally publicized gang violence via assault weapons, then you see things like the awb. When drug deaths, or publicity and outrage from drug related issues happens, then you see the DEA step it up a notch.

When stuff calms down and people quit bitchin, then law enforcement eases up. Like the feds allowing states to openly legalize medical marijuana. It has been, and will always be like this.

We as Americans have, in the interest of personal freedom, decided that we will allow certain dangerous things in our society. We have also accepted the downsides of those decisions.

[sticksdaman]

Both arguments are flawed....

The "arm everybody" logic is faulty in its assumption that every American citizen is a level headed rational individual. How do we determine who is a potential mass murderer? Does that mean we have to have the government intruding further into our lives by monitoring each and every action that might prove "questionable" to decide who deserves a gun and who doesnt? Someone could have just been fired from their job due to outsourcing and decided to take their anger out on say... a group of immigrants. Do we restrict all employees of companies that outsource from having guns?

On the flip side... criminals have guns. Criminals will always have guns legal or illegal. Making it harder for law abiding citizens (pre-criminals) to gain legal access to the same weapons criminals do, wont do anybody any good.

[mrsleeve]

We as Americans have, in the interest of personal freedom, decided that we will allow certain dangerous things in our society. We have also accepted the downsides of those decisions.

This is one thing I fully agree with.

Who said this I cant remember, "with great power, comes great responsibility" This applies to any CCW holder and is always on our minds, if its not then you have no business caring a gun into public.

[bejbis]

dude. just think about that for at least 1 minute.

Think about what? As much as i hate to bring up 9/11, a few crazy religious guys in flip flops took over a few planes with nothing more than poor English and some box cutters and killed a few thousand people, without guns.


I CCW on a regular basis and understand the responsibility that goes with carrying any weapon. So do 99% of every other legal carrying member of our society. Im proud I have this right and also wonder how many of these murderers your referring to, legally have a gun? I bet there are more 'tactical assault weapons' in cali than you can count. Just because they havent had a incident in a while, just means a person hasnt decided to do something dumb.

Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either one. -Ben Franklin

[Victell]

Think about what? As much as i hate to bring up 9/11, a few crazy religious guys in flip flops took over a few planes with nothing more than poor English and some box cutters and killed a few thousand people, without guns.

Those are the once-in-a-decade think-outside-the-box folks I mentioned. The rest are low-effort, uncreative loons whose general expression is the ol' rampage with the guns in your closet. Which I admit accepting in a later post.

I CCW on a regular basis and understand the responsibility that goes with carrying any weapon.

which is why you have a permit. this works as it should.

I have no problem with your ccw or anybody elses. Stats apparently support your responsible handling. I would have a problem with our entire population ccw, as was my response to the suggestion.

[Pinepig]

Yes it matters. If one turbanhead shows at to a civic center and kills 14, he's a terrorist and everyone turns paranoiac against foreign attacks. People get jailed for nothing, just because they have tanned skin. If one white American shows up in the same civic centers and shoots 14, nothing will be done and everyone claims the right to have more guns. Where's the logic?

Most gun crazy Americans are so much in their gun shit, they don't even realize what they are begging for. More guns to defend against more people with more guns. Nice escalade...

Personally I find the term turbanhead offensive ( and incorrect ) a Sikh would be required to wear a turban and is no way associated with radical islam.

Suicide bomber for allah and mentally defective shooter are two different things.

[Pinepig]

Murder is a crime. I think there have been more than 2 murders via assault weapons since the 50s. Unless you live in a cave and your cave's internet firewall only allows nra websites.

Please define " assault weapon " then go look up the true definition and you'll fine that the above two murder stat is correct.

AK47 look alike rifles may still be purchased in California ( Bet you any amount of money you would like to wager on this one cause I'd like to pick up a couple of AKs myself and could use some spare cash to purchase them ).

[Beach Bum]

My favorite quote concerning gun control:

"If catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

I'm sure you guys can figure out what that means.

Anyone ever read Heinlein's "Beyond this Horizon"? Widely armed populace. People were quite polite to one another.

[Victell]

Please define " assault weapon " then go look up the true definition and you'll fine that the above two murder stat is correct.

AK47 look alike rifles may still be purchased in California ( Bet you any amount of money you would like to wager on this one cause I'd like to pick up a couple of AKs myself and could use some spare cash to purchase them ).

pedantic semantics. im out for the eve.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The truth of the matter is a true assault weapon is a completely different weapon system than the ones listed in CA and the former national AWB.

They are not merely semantics, they have been and were banned because they looked like a scary military gun. the term "Assault weapon" has been morphed by the Anti crowd into what you and the bulk of the people that are not in the shooting community think is an AW is. I have all ready defined what a Assault weapon is for you, in previous post.

[Quadrajet]

There were two attacks on the world trade center, the one that took them down, and the one where they used a van or truck without enough explosives to collapse the building from the under ground parking garage.
And proof that the "Fun Gun" ban didn't do anything, is the fact that after the expiration, crimes that could be associated with them didn't spike. Except for the wave of rampant bayonet charges.