Bcuz it needs a new thread... Glenn Beck is a Mormon!?!Political/Religion Disclaimer

[browntown]

magic underwear

[Farbin Kaiber]

I like how my religon threads usually end up. It's nice to discuss instead of bantering name calling.

[ck_taft325is]

Well I hate to double post but this is a good post and warrants a reply.

I think something we need to understand is that Science is not absolute, and does not claim to be absolute. To be a good scientist you have to accept the fact that you are wrong sometimes. If you are a scientist, and you find overwhelming evidence that you're hypothesis is incorrect, to not change you're world view afterwords would be the wrong thing to do. This is why science does not require faith, because it is not absolute belief in something. Science simply offers possible explanations that have shown to be accurate in past observations. If someone was to make predictions based on scientific theories, those predictions would not be theories, they would instead be hypotheses. Because science only considers what has happened and not what will happen, there is no need to have faith to agree with scientific theories.

Now I think there might also be a disconnection between you and I and our definitions of faith. I am using the word faith in a religious context where it implies a lack of evidence for whatever you choose to have faith in. When using this definition, it clearly cannot be used with science as all (good) science is supported by evidence. Faith is also correctly used almost as a synonym of confidence. I can say I am confident in science because in the past it has not let me down and I expect it to continue to explain society accurately . This is not the same as a religious faith in God because faith in God is recognizing that there is no evidence for his existence, but you still choose to believe anyway. I think that is an elemental part of religion. I also feel this is a very mature, intelligent debate. Most internet "discussions" are reduced to ad-hominem attacks and capital letters (yelling) but I am glad that the denizens of R3v are better than that.

I catch what you're saying when you say faith. Any believer in God should or at least if they are honest with themselves say they have doubt. As T. Keller said, faith without doubt is like a body with no anti-bodies. It just doesn't work. Unreasonable faith in anything is unhealthy and destructive for anyone involved.

It's not all about convincing, it's about understanding. Boys talk to hear themselves, men talk to understand and listen.

[Naplm00]

Religon is a sham to provide power over the masses, same as politics and mountian dew

[ck_taft325is]

Blanket statement or did you actually read anything posted in this thread?

[ldsbeaker]

I want to approach this gingerly...

Some of my issues; a "quorum" determines whom the next prophet will be (The one degeneritive factor in the religion equation is Man.), this elected prophet makes socio-morralistic statements in his letters and writings that via the LDS belief system become rock-solid "Gospel Truth's", a religion is supposed to be a faith-based belief, whereas the LDS system is more of a full fledged, full time, rule based social club. (Wards, Stakes, Bishops, Thithe Officers, required apperance conformity, The assumption that the LDS church is the one, eliete church; that they think the "church" (Defined in the Hebrew as "Out-called Ones") was broken and had failed for the past 1800+ years, and it was/is their duty alone to restore it to what god really wants, The obvious ties to Freemasonry in it's the origins and texts, the elevation of a human being (Joseph Smith) to the possition of the right hand of God (pushing Jesus The Christ to the subserviant left-hand spot), the training at a young age to be skilled in gossip, disrespect, and assumption of being a higher being, the assumption that ther is a special third place in heaven reserved just for LDS people, the removal of free will via baptism ceremonies in which dead people are brought into members "eternal famlies" without choice, the masonic symbols on the sacred garments...

I could continue, but I'm getting hungry. (And I didn't spell check it either...)

No.

The Quorum of the Twelve does not determine who the next prophet will be.
The next senior (pretty sure it's age) Apostle is advanced to the post, subject to sustainment from the Quorum of the Twelve, and the rest of the church (pretty much obligatory). God decides who the next prophet will be by attrition. (crude explanation, but that's how it goes.)

Joseph Smith is not at the right hand of God. Jesus is. PERIOD. Joseph Smith didn't suffer the atonement, wasn't crucified. Yes, he was martyred, but that doesn't put him above Jesus Christ.

EVERYONE thinks that their church/belief is the the "ONE TRUE CHURCH/BELIEF". That's why we have these arguments in the first place.

Your generalization and subjective view of everything else IRT The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is just that.
Tomato v. Tomahto.

[Farbin Kaiber]

No.

The Quorum of the Twelve does not determine who the next prophet will be.
The next senior (pretty sure it's age) Apostle is advanced to the post, subject to sustainment from the Quorum of the Twelve, and the rest of the church (pretty much obligatory). God decides who the next prophet will be by attrition. (crude explanation, but that's how it goes.)

Joseph Smith is not at the right hand of God. Jesus is. PERIOD. Joseph Smith didn't suffer the atonement, wasn't crucified. Yes, he was martyred, but that doesn't put him above Jesus Christ.

EVERYONE thinks that their church/belief is the the "ONE TRUE CHURCH/BELIEF". That's why we have these arguments in the first place.

Your generalization and subjective view of everything else IRT The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is just that.
Tomato v. Tomahto.

Regardless of the semantics, a bunch of guys get together and decide whom gets the power to speak for god. Same as the Catholics. Silly.

And, I'll just leave this here, It was brought to my attention by some of the local Anti-LDS and ex-LDS folks in my neighborhood.



Covers pretty much everything. I can see why it was banned, needing to hide the truth and all, much like Scientology.

I suggest you look around and question things a bit more. As an observation from the past year being in the suburbs of the Mormon Stronghold, the Mormons are very sheeplike.

[LBJefferies]

Regardless of the semantics, a bunch of guys get together and decide whom gets the power to speak for god. Same as the Catholics. Silly.

And, I'll just leave this here, It was brought to my attention by some of the local Anti-LDS and ex-LDS folks in my neighborhood.



Covers pretty much everything. I can see why it was banned, needing to hide the truth and all, much like Scientology.

I suggest you look around and question things a bit more. As an observation from the past year being in the suburbs of the Mormon Stronghold, the Mormons are very sheeplike.

That's a good video.

Here's the South Park video about scientology.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104274

Here is L. Rob Hubbard himself explaining Scientology.

http://gawker.com/5037013/the-history-of-xenu-as-explained-by-l-ron-hubbard-in-8-minutes

[Farbin Kaiber]

That's a good video.

Here's the South Park video about scientology.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104274

Here is L. Rob Hubbard himself explaining Scientology.
http://gawker.com/5037013/the-histor...d-in-8-minutes

Thanks, have you seen any of my past Scientology threads? I almost contemplated coming up with some form of a manuscript. Religion is quite an interesting subject for me.

[ldsbeaker]

Regardless of the semantics, a bunch of guys get together and decide whom gets the power to speak for god. Same as the Catholics. Silly.

And, I'll just leave this here, It was brought to my attention by some of the local Anti-LDS and ex-LDS folks in my neighborhood.



Covers pretty much everything. I can see why it was banned, needing to hide the truth and all, much like Scientology.

I suggest you look around and question things a bit more. As an observation from the past year being in the suburbs of the Mormon Stronghold, the Mormons are very sheeplike.

There's no semantics to it. If you read what I wrote, I wrote it very carefully.
I can't see your Youtube link, but I'm sure whoever's talking has got some valid points to the right audience. There's probably some truth, and some untruth.

... and I'll have you know that I question things plenty. I read the Bible, I read Dianetics, The Book of Mormon, I've read snippets of several other religious readings, I even checked out a Masonic Bible. I'm no scriptorian, but I'll share something with you:

They ALL have a bit of truth in them!

I joined the church after a long investigation of about 4-5 years. I'm sure I asked the same questions you have. I've been a member for about 14 years, and I still consider myself a child in the religious sense.
I find your off the cuff, irreverent, condescending synopsis of my religion a bit disrespectful. But that's okay! I'm sure there's a great reason for your attitude. I don't want to live in Utah, either, if that means anything to you. I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience.

Here's the thing. We all have free will. I made my choice just like you made yours. (educated) Doesn't make mine any better than yours or vice versa. However, just because you make a choice to follow a certain set of rules doesn't make you a "sheep". It just means you believe in something.
Hey, it's an e-discussion. Any troll can bait an argument. I can't show you here on this rock box how I feel, and that, Farbin Kaiber, is what it all boils down to.
Just like going to the left and forward for reverse, it FEELS RIGHT.


p.s. My mom (not mormon) LOVES Glenn Beck. She kept on telling me about him, and finally I checked him out. Imagine my surprise when I found out he's Mormon. I don't listen to him, though. Not interested. Another member that knocked my freakin' socks off: Harry Reid. Yup, good old stalwart of the Democratic Party. (!!) I was super surprised. I always thought we (mormons) were pretty conservative in life and politics... Just me, I guess. ;)

[Schnitzer318is]

Being raised Catholic, I can see where they take some heat. But I can see that about every religion.

I am now an atheist or possibly agnostic by some definitions. Going to Catholic school as a child (at least Immaculate Conception) really opened up my eyes to religions. We read the bible of course, but also snippets of Jewish texts, the Qur'an, etc. We took field trips to Jewish temples, synagogues, and or course cathedrals. It was a great learning experience.

Bottom line in my eyes, religions/beliefs are created to answer some of the most spiritual questions. "What is our purpose?" "What happens after this life?" "Where did we come from?" Those sorts of questions. While I firmly believe the "where did we come from" was already answered by evolution... that's neither here nor there.

And if individuals need a "higher" power to explain all of those things that's fine by me. But I also believe the world would probably be a better place if religion had never come into being. I live my life as if I am looking down on myself. How would I want to view myself? I stop and help people who have broken down, am courteous to everyone (I do slip sometimes, we all do), and show respect to anyone as long as they return it. I am not saying I am better than anyone else for my beliefs (or lack thereof), my thing is we all need "someone" to answer to. For me, that person is me. Oh... lol and my wife of course. ;)

[Farbin Kaiber]

There's no semantics to it. If you read what I wrote, I wrote it very carefully.
I can't see your Youtube link, but I'm sure whoever's talking has got some valid points to the right audience. There's probably some truth, and some untruth.

... and I'll have you know that I question things plenty. I read the Bible, I read Dianetics, The Book of Mormon, I've read snippets of several other religious readings, I even checked out a Masonic Bible. I'm no scriptorian, but I'll share something with you:

They ALL have a bit of truth in them!

I joined the church after a long investigation of about 4-5 years. I'm sure I asked the same questions you have. I've been a member for about 14 years, and I still consider myself a child in the religious sense.
I find your off the cuff, irreverent, condescending synopsis of my religion a bit disrespectful. But that's okay! I'm sure there's a great reason for your attitude. I don't want to live in Utah, either, if that means anything to you. I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience.

Here's the thing. We all have free will. I made my choice just like you made yours. (educated) Doesn't make mine any better than yours or vice versa. However, just because you make a choice to follow a certain set of rules doesn't make you a "sheep". It just means you believe in something.
Hey, it's an e-discussion. Any troll can bait an argument. I can't show you here on this rock box how I feel, and that, Farbin Kaiber, is what it all boils down to.
Just like going to the left and forward for reverse, it FEELS RIGHT.


p.s. My mom (not mormon) LOVES Glenn Beck. She kept on telling me about him, and finally I checked him out. Imagine my surprise when I found out he's Mormon. I don't listen to him, though. Not interested. Another member that knocked my freakin' socks off: Harry Reid. Yup, good old stalwart of the Democratic Party. (!!) I was super surprised. I always thought we (mormons) were pretty conservative in life and politics... Just me, I guess. ;)

The video is a cartoon for children, made by the Mormon church in the late 70's early 80's. I will, from now on, stop calling them Mormons if you wish, I know they are using the LDS title to distance themselves from the negative stigma that follows the name.

I am interested, in what made you choose an "LDS" faith as opposed to the others you say you have read?

I find your off the cuff, irreverent, condescending synopsis of my religion a bit disrespectfu

It's a two way street, I find the LDS additions a perversion of the Biblical text as disrespectful. My opinions are not gross generalizations, but fact based, time tested, proven facts. You simply cannot refute the things your religion has claimed as pillars of the basis of the faith.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Also,

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


And,

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


Furthermore, the divine word of your own prophet has been modified by later leaders. Isn't is sacrilegious to change the Testaments?

Shown here...

http://www.4mormon.org/mormon-doctrine-covenants.php

And here,

http://www.irr.org/mit/changing-scripture.html

Also,

I will agree with you on one point, there is a bit of truth in ALL of them. It's all a matter of interpretation of the truth. And, lasty, not all religions assume they are the only true one, as yours does, being as Jesus himself, proven in scriptural reference here,

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.





(Note, All my biblical text from KJV. A wide variety of other translations may show varied similarities.)


P.S. I'm two and a half hours from SLC, not in Utah, but it's the same difference. I love it here, just can't deal with all these undereducated missionaries that don't even know scripture.

[Naplm00]

Blanket statement or did you actually read anything posted in this thread?

Read alot of it, but I cant beleive in a God who would let American Idol stay on TV as long as it has.

[ALYKZANDYR]

It is quite simple really. There never was, isnt now, and never will be a god or anything that resembles, worshiped as, is patented to be, is copyrighted as the shape, size smell, taste, sound of, or likeness of...a god Anyone who believes in the existence of a higher being is a fucktard and for the rest of their life should be forced to lick clean, and spit-shine the underside of E30s to repay society for their religious, bible beating, holly rolling, fucktardiness.

Like seriously, all churches do is con people into giving them money, then they dotn have to pay taxes on it. That is bullshit.

[ldsbeaker]

Farbin,
I'll check out your scriptural references later, but I'll tell you, I'm not a scriptorian. I'm sure we could trade chapter and verse (we read the KJV, too) until Jesus comes... (haha)

... but that's a waste of time for me. I'm not going to convince you, you're not going to convince me. Hey, I'll bet if more Mormons were like me, you would have enjoyed the Utah area.

I picked LDS for the same reason I go left and up in any manual tranny car I get in. Because it FEELS RIGHT.
Dianetics/Scientology? Didn't feel right. Catholicism? Didn't feel right. ad infinitum.