Arrest illegals, now what a novel idea!

[Farbin Kaiber]

Illegal Immigration at least needs a Three Strike Law. Get brought into the system, printed, get two more chances, then final time it's Mandatory Minimum five years in a bordertown slammer.


Unfortunately we as a society are not yet ready to lose a massive low cost labor pool, regardless of laws. It's a good middle ground.

[der affe]

unfortunately too true.
we also need tougher laws and penilties for employers who hire illegals.

the national data base/ id check does work for catching NEW HIRES, but it can not be used to catch those who are already employed.

[dinanm3atl]

I am sure the ACLU or someone will come in and block it claiming it to be racist.

[ck_taft325is]

Let me ask you a serious question.

First consider this:

GWB increased Federal spending by well over 33% (not counting Defense) in his first term, but then offered tax cuts-significant tax cuts which reduced revenues. His Medicare Drug Benefit plan will cost up to 1.2 trillion by 2015, but still, he cut taxes. He declared war, but still cut taxes. And so we ended up with a huge deficit. IOW, he curried favor by appealing to the base with tax cut upon tax cut, knowing he would stick the incoming Prez with a huge, very unpopular bill. It was like giving a 17 year old girl a credit card and telling her not to worry, someone else was paying.

That said, if you are maintaining that Democrats love taxes, would it not also be appropriate to say "Republicans love spending?" Especially when no one plans to pay it back?

That the nation's budgetary situation continues to deteriorate is because the administration's fiscal policy has been decidedly more about politics than policy. Even the tax cuts, which happened to be good policy, were still political in nature considering their appeal to the Republican's conservative base. At the same time, the politicos running the Bush reelection machine have consistently tried to placate or silence the liberals and special interests by throwing money at their every whim and desire. In mathematical terms, the administration calculates that satiated conservatives plus silenced liberals equals reelection.

How else can one explain the administration publishing a glossy report criticizing farm programs and then proceeding to sign a farm bill that expands those same programs? How else can one explain the administration acknowledging that entitlements are going to bankrupt the nation if left unreformed yet pushing the largest historical expansion in Medicare one year before the election?

BTW, the Republicans had a grand opportunity to reform immigration laws, but folded when it came time to act.

GWB (another terribly self-absorbed liberal spender) is a terrible example. Sorry, but I can't defend a President's fiscal spending despite party lines when the President in question was a terrible spender. One could say he claimed to be a "Republican" but ended up being quite Democratic in his spending. I agree, GWB's spending and over-all fiscal plan was a fucking sham. There's no excuses for his overtly stupid spending.

But regardless of GWB, this current administration has a 10 fold worse plan when it comes to their fiscal plan. The claims made in this administration are outlandish in comparison. And that, my friend, is saying a lot.

As for Immigration laws, I'm not on the "Republican" side of this. But all in all, I'm definately against Democratic philosophy thus far. Not that either party is what it set out to be. The crazies are in Congress, the House and Senate. Most of the Republican stand point on immigration was and is a disgrace. More red tape, more Government, etc. The fact is, immigration procedure needs to be addressed. But that does not eliminate fault on those that break a law to come into this country and abuse programs that are already struggling. Another issue entirely are said programs.

I don't think you and I are that far from each others stand points.

[shiftbmw]

Nope. You guys always talk about how liberals need to think logically and not with their feelings. You sir are letting your feelings override your judgment.

If you document illegals that are here, at least you can get them to start paying taxes into the system instead of taking money out of the system by either deporting them or their continued use of social services. And deportation is not a deterrent. It's not as if they are getting the death penalty or anything. If they get caught, they just get sent back, illegals have nothing to lose by coming here. So, document the illegals that are already here, deport the criminals and do a better job securing the border. That's what needs to be done.

It may not be fair, but as you right wingers so proudly proclaim, life isn't fair.

Pretty sure most illegal immigrants don't make enough money to contribute a whole lot(if any) in taxes.

[e30e]

Nothing is going to stop these people, seriously come to Southern Arizona see what they are willing to risk. No fence is going to stop them, arresting them and then sending them back isn't going to stop them. This state is spending STUPID money on this issue, give them a work pass and make them pay taxes; if the one million plus illegals in Arizona paid taxes just think about the help medicare would receive.

YES THEY BROKE THEY LAW but damnit its expensive to play this game and I'm tired of going to ER and having them skimp on paying the bill but when I go and I need I have to wait and then PAY for it.

[mrsleeve]

47% of people dont pay fed taxes as it is now and most states base their brackets off the IRS. You are telling me that millions of day laborers that are making 60-100 bucks a day are going earn enough in a year to 1) pay any tax. or 2) FUCKING REPORT THAT CASH INCOME and pay taxes on it in the 1st place????


Lets use our heads here and assume the very best possible scenario

365 days times 100 bucks = 36,500. If they were to report that, and are a head of house and have 3 dependents (wife and 2 kids) they are going to get a refund for every dime they would owe on that income.

So there you have just rewarded breaking the law, by giving them the rights to stay and work blah blah blah, and collecting absolutely noting in taxes to cover what they soak up in entitlements,in the form of free heath care, food stamps, section 8 housing, and tons of other entitlements. You have done nothing to better the situation by documenting them in the long run you have cost us all even more.

[87e30]

And this is why it's a tricky situation.

No matter what we do we lose.

-Deport them: lose low wage workers, difficult plan, expensive
-Add them through a process as citizens: They don't have the money, we spend money to do this

It's annoying. I think our energy should be spent on reforming the immigration system, that is one thing we can actually make progress on.

[e30e]

47% of people dont pay fed taxes as it is now and most states base their brackets off the IRS. You are telling me that millions of day laborers that are making 60-100 bucks a day are going earn enough in a year to 1) pay any tax. or 2) FUCKING REPORT THAT CASH INCOME and pay taxes on it in the 1st place????


Lets use our heads here and assume the very best possible scenario

365 days times 100 bucks = 36,500. If they were to report that, and are a head of house and have 3 dependents (wife and 2 kids) they are going to get a refund for every dime they would owe on that income.

So there you have just rewarded breaking the law, by giving them the rights to stay and work blah blah blah, and collecting absolutely noting in taxes to cover what they soak up in entitlements,in the form of free heath care, food stamps, section 8 housing, and tons of other entitlements. You have done nothing to better the situation by documenting them in the long run you have cost us all even more.

Come to Arizona with your passion, I welcome it.....Seriously just getting them on paper is worth it if consider every time an illegal immigrant gets in accident and flees or worse rapes or kills someone; REGISTER THEM AND MAKE THEM PAY TAXES.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My lil bro, mom and Gma(snow bird) live in your fair city. I have been there many many times, you can have it.


yeah like the rancher that was killed a few weeks ago, and then the guy that did it escaped back into mexico through the wildlife refuge where the boarder patrol is not allowed to go other than on foot.


I stand by my plan, BIG FENCE round up and truck em back. and have a few road gravel plants set up and make the ones trying to get back in spend 6 days a week for 10 years chained to 9 other unlucky souls that meet the same fate making big rock to little rock, Little rock to dust, with a 10lb hammer, on bread and water for rations.

[e30e]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My lil bro, mom and Gma(snow bird) live in your fair city. I have been there many many times, you can have it.

Grew in Glendale/Peoria (NEXT FUCKING SUN CITY, retirement community) and now live in Tucson, CAN NOT WAIT to get of Arizona, tooooooo bad no one is hiring.

[der affe]

Come to Arizona.....Seriously every time an illegal immigrant gets in accident and flees.

tucson is really becoming a shit hole.
PHX and the west side is on it's way.

i live on the east side for a reason, it's not perfect by anymeans, but it is at least an economic barrier.

when i go visits friends on the west side or central phx it is with my ass puckered hoping not to get hit. it had gotten to the point that the cops wont even issue tickets to illegals in a traffic accident. why bother, they wont show up. it really SUCKS. i get a ticket if i don't have insurance, but they skate.

[z31maniac]

tucson is really becoming a shit hole.

And why is it becoming a shit hole?

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

actually according to my bro its has gotten some what better as of late. With the work slowing up for much of the economy many went else where or back to Mexico. It has really shown up in the rental markets, once where you could not find a decent place to rent for under 800-1200 for a 1 bed, because they were all full of "undocumented workers" that paid in cash every month. Now (or at least a few months ago) 199 moved you in to a really nice building and rent was 250 a month for the 1st 6 months then went to 550 there after for the same 1 bed. My bors best friend moved into a 2 bed 1 1/2 bath for 650 a month and is the 1st tenet in that appt, and has a long option to lease at that rate.

[gwb72tii]

a fence would work if done properly, like two fences with razor wire seperated by sand for finding footprints
ask the israeli's
illegals are illegal, right
or am i wrong?
if they're illegal, the only solution is to enforce the law