our schools suck because of THE LIBERAL AGENDA

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes as a matter of fact, I know several people on the govt doll, for everything, that spend all their under the table money (a couple make a ton off the books) and go through 3-400 bucks in pot a week. MI is a shitty place to live and I know lots of people trapped there.

I have laid out several times how responsible safety net should be implemented, and do just as Ben Franklin said .

[ck_taft325is]

Ben Franklin was a baller.

[mrsleeve]

Ben Franklin was a baller.

Truth, was the original media Mogul of the USA, when the affluent lawyers of the colonies earned 20-25 pounds a year, Mr Franklin was pulling down 2000 pounds a year. He was the original Philanthropist, and did MUCH good for the poor, by starting hospitals, and schools.

Franklin was great man

[Turf1600]

Franklin was our french delegate. He spent much time overseas learning from french philosophers. In fact, much of our constitution is based on that era of french philosophy. This is also where many founding fathers adopted the idea of deism from - which at the time was considered trendy in intellectual circles.

[z31maniac]

Beer and smokes are not buyable anymore via Food stamps. Even the Electronic kind.

You're reading comprehension fails you.

They get the cash off the card, then use that to buy cigs/beer/etc. So yes, they use benefit to buy things.

How do I know? When I worked at a conveince store for 4 years during high school and college, I watched it happen all the time.

Why do people feel the need to drag out the usual, boring red herring fallacies when discussing welfare? Anyone who trots out a "welfare queen" argument has nothing to say.

Regarding EBT:



No, nobody is buying beer, cigarettes or lottery tickets with EBT funds. If they conduct separate transactions with real money, well, that's that person's business, not yours.

Welfare reform of the 90's was enormously successful, and limited the lifetime length that a person can spend on welfare.

I'm trotting out personal experience, but I guess had you actually READ what I wrote, you would have gotten that.

Beer/cigs, again read above. And I believe what welfare receipients spend money on is OUR business, because its OUR money that they are spending.


Are you against mandatory drug testing for those who accept welfare too?

[mrsleeve]

Franklin was our french delegate. He spent much time overseas learning from french philosophers. In fact, much of our constitution is based on that era of french philosophy. This is also where many founding fathers adopted the idea of deism from - which at the time was considered trendy in intellectual circles.

I keep telling you fucking fucks that most of the Founders were not Diestis. Many were educated men that did not partake in Organized religion, that is not the same as Dieism

UMMMM No the Constitution was not based on the frenchies. Was based more on the Mangna Cartra and the British bill of rights of 1689. And the Ideas that our rights as free men come from God/creator/ or born with them. That they dont come from the govt. This idea was a mostly product of the churches in the colonies, also that religion was to play as much greater role in governing this country then the federal govt.

To be a free society you have to have a moral compass to guide you in your interactions with the rest of society. For the masses and the great bulk of the population this is your Religion. Thats why there is a freedom of religion, to warship any deity of your choice or none at all is protected, but you are still bound by law to not infringe on others right to or cause the harm. The Constitution prevents the establishment of a state religion.

The god who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. -Thomas Jefferson

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.-Thomas Jefferson

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. -Thomas Jefferson

A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate. -Thomas Jefferson

[Wiglaf]

lol even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while :D

Look dude, just because you remember more Jefferson quotes than me doesn't make it OK to be a condescending dickwad.

[ck_taft325is]

You're reading comprehension fails you.

They get the cash off the card, then use that to buy cigs/beer/etc. So yes, they use benefit to buy things.

How do I know? When I worked at a conveince store for 4 years during high school and college, I watched it happen all the time.



I'm trotting out personal experience, but I guess had you actually READ what I wrote, you would have gotten that.

Beer/cigs, again read above. And I believe what welfare receipients spend money on is OUR business, because its OUR money that they are spending.


Are you against mandatory drug testing for those who accept welfare too?

Okay, so they can take one third of their "free" money out and buy (in this example) $100.00 worth of beer, smokes, what have you. This still falls under the marginalized "exceptions" or "abuses" in the system. No system is without abuses. I don't feel these programs are inheriently wrong. I do agree there needs to be a few more fail safes to catch these abuses. But nothing blanket will address every case. Not even just removing the entire system. Again, you'd punish everyone for a minority statistic. You might personally feel these "abuses" happen too often to justify the system but the facts are that a majority of people that don't abuse the system genuinely just need a hand up or a tiny bit of help to get by in a rough time.

To speak more on things such as unemployment, even if you reach the weekly max ($575.00 IIRC), have you ever gone from making $50,000 a year and barely making it to being unemployed and trying to live off of $575.00 a week? It's next to impossible. I'm talking about being laid off for 2+ months and trying to find another job and scrape by when NO one is hiring. Is this a terrible abuse of the system if you are to say, get some sidework and not report it? I don't mean buying steaks and Hostess cakes here folks, I mean Ramen and mortgage payments. No car payments. No vehicle expenses except gas when you ABSOLUTELY need to. No dinner out. No movies. Cancelling cable, internet, cell in favor of a cheaper land line.

Again, these systems are not meant to sustain a person. After 2 years all benefits should end unless can be proven otherwise.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Obviously you dont understand how UE works. When I am laid off I draw 552 a week, its insurance, not a govt hand out. WHen I am working I am paying as part of my payrole taxes into the UE system, my employer has to pay a UE tax on total pay role paid out every month. The more I make the more I pay and the more he pays. The when I get laid off and file for the benefits and am approved, the state sends a bill to my boss for the rest of the money for the full 26 weeks of obligation to me. That = about 14k over the 26 weeks of benefits. Now say you find/go back to work in 2 months, where dose the rest of your money go, yeah the state keeps it and uses's as funding source. Until 2009 if you worked in more than 2 states you could file on any states UE. Since Mass pays the best if you showed up and filed in person they would pay you and collect the fees and money form the states you worked in. The bank on the fact that you would not use all the benefits in a years time. Was a huge money maker for the state, and the feds closed that loop hole on 2/11/09

Now thats money that my boss has to build into our billing, so he can pay the taxes on his payroll every month and the premium at lay off time. Just think if I made that 14k over the course of my employment. Would I need unemployment, NO prolly not.

Yes its hard to go from 2-3k a week to 552, but when you save up enough its not as hard. I got caught off balance this last time in (march) was supposed to be 2 weeks R&R but we are going on 3 months, and the cash reserves are a bit lower than I like.

Look dude, just because you remember more Jefferson quotes than me doesn't make it OK to be a condescending dickwad.

Not being a dick wad just giving you a little shit, since we are normally on opposite sides of the discussion, its all meant in good fun and no ill will is intended.

[Wiglaf]

np. I like that you make intelligent points in the discussion, just that one had my eyeballs going at a measurable RPM.

[Turf1600]

Do you really want to do this again with the back and forth quoting?

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

My answer will be the same, I dont have the time to nor the will to write a book for you. Just do a little more research into the founders, and you will start to get it.

[Turf1600]

I'm well versed on our founding fathers already. Thanks, though.