The EPA to take Texas refineries offline.

[joshh]

http://www.newpatriotjournal.com/Articles/EPA_Takes_33_of_US_Refining_Capacity_Offline

I say we just shut anything and everything down that pollutes.

[mrsleeve]

the price of oil is falling due to slower demand thanks to the shitty economy. How better to get fuel prices to go WAY THE FUCK UP so we stop driving than to arbitrarily kill off a 1/3 of the nations refined products capability.

Oh what about the all those 1000's of people that work at those refineries that HAVE REALLY GOOD PAYING JOBS, that are now going to be outta work and on unemployment how is that good, thought the admin wanted to try to save jobs??? Between this and the moratorium in the gulf thats got to be close to 60k Really good paying jobs, in the name of political agenda, in the time of economic troubble.

This fucker is making FDR look good with the burring of crops and destruction of milk to try and keep food prices up in the 30's

Like I have been saying for a long time the EPA is used as a weapon just like the IRS

[joshh]

Bam!

[joshh]

I don't know how this is going to play out. The EPA wants them to conform to higher standards. I don't know what that exactly means in this case. I can't imagine some of these refineries wont have to shut down for a bit at least.

[mrsleeve]

Ok been digging into this a little bit.

Seems that the state of TX has been issuing emissions permits to the refineries for total emissions out put for the WHOLE FACILITY. An has been doing so since 94, with out EPA or federal approval.


Now where the sticky wicket comes from is the EPA wants them to mandate and permit cap each individual point of emissions with in a facility adding god knows how many more permits and bureaucratic red tape to the process oh and money generated for the govt in permitting.

In other words the state of TX went ahead and said this is the emissions regulations you have to meet and be under in order to get a permit for you whole operations a xxxxxxx site. Now with in that site there could be 5-15 Crackers there, multiple flare stations, and all kinds of other points of emissions. The feds want the to force permit each one of those crackers and flare stations and every other deal. So in essence each of the those many permits add up to the total permitted amount to be in compliance with regulations, but a FUCK MORE COMPLICATED thanks hundreds or even 1000s more pages of documentation and time to get each individual permit rather then just 1 big permit.

Now since TX has never gotten official permission from the feds or the EPA and have been doing it anyway the fucking 0 is taking this opportunity to fuck with the energy sector as much as possible in the guise of protecting the environment from another BP like accident. There have been 40??? some congressmen that have petitioned Hillery to not issue Transcanada PLC to not issue them a international border crossing permit for the Keystone XL pipeline extension project that is a 6 billion dollar investment to ship alberta oil sands crude to the refineries on the gulf coast. This project was to begin construction this month, oh all the elected officals that sent the letter are from the coasts and are no where near where this line will run. The EPA, Department of the Interior, and the BLM are holding up a 8 billion dollar project from WY to OR for Natural Gas that is supposed to be in service this time next year. All of these projects that have been years in the approval process and jumped all the hoops are now being bogged down by the FEDs and the energy hating administration for final permitting, and keeping lost of people on unemployment and from earning their decent living.

[Dozyproductions]

give obama a break. He's our first black president... lololololol

[e30e]

give obama a break. He's our first black president... lololololol

He's half black, so I will only grant him a break every 25 issues, so far he's at issue 23 this year. Because Bush only got a break every 1000 issues, seems fair according to our standard affirmative action.

[mar1t1me]

Ever consider that if the oil companies didn't demonstrate such a willingness to fuck over the environment and endanger the livelihoods of millions of people with the sloppy profit-first-safety-second "it won't happen to US" corporate ethos, then maybe the feds wouldn't feel the need to super-nanny them to death? Imagine the oil companies going before congress with a century of well managed operations that showed respect for the communities surrounding their operations. They would have a good case for being left to their own regulation. That didn't happen though, and now Americans are screaming "how could you let this happen! Do something!"

It's clear that guys on that rig were blowing the whistle for a while, but somewhere, some middle manager said "screw it-keep going". Then the explosion occurred and BP fervently hoped they could quickly get things under control and lied about the amounts of oil leaking. Rush even said it was no big deal-the oil was as natural as seawater! True, but so are rattle snakes. Doesn't mean I want to share my house with them. But it's hard to hide blackened beaches and dead animals, so they owned up. And now we have a whole shit pot full of people whose lives have been irrevocably changed for the worse, and when you see the fucking gymnastics exercises BP wants to put the affected people through before they shell out any dough, well......fuck 'em.

Maybe very expensive oil prices would make importing vast amounts of disposable shit from China unprofitable and we might actually go back to making a few things here on a smaller, more local basis to avoid high transportation costs. Maybe we would consider not choosing to live 50 miles from our jobs. Maybe we would be a better, stronger, fitter country if our kids walked or rode bikes to school instead of being driven a mile or two in a 4000lb vehicle. Maybe America would be better off in the end for it.

OK. I guess I need to get busy doing something constructive. It is the 4th of July and all.

Time for America to be more "independent". I think I'll pedal my completely unlicensed, unregulated bike down to the store, buy a six pack of local brew, and enjoy a car free day. Don't get me wrong-I have a love of cars, but that's different than being totally dependent on one for every little errand.

[LBJefferies]

Ever consider that if the oil companies didn't demonstrate such a willingness to fuck over the environment and endanger the livelihoods of millions of people with the sloppy profit-first-safety-second "it won't happen to US" corporate ethos, then maybe the feds wouldn't feel the need to super-nanny them to death? Imagine the oil companies going before congress with a century of well managed operations that showed respect for the communities surrounding their operations. They would have a good case for being left to their own regulation. That didn't happen though, and now Americans are screaming "how could you let this happen! Do something!"

It's clear that guys on that rig were blowing the whistle for a while, but somewhere, some middle manager said "screw it-keep going". Then the explosion occurred and BP fervently hoped they could quickly get things under control and lied about the amounts of oil leaking. Rush even said it was no big deal-the oil was as natural as seawater! True, but so are rattle snakes. Doesn't mean I want to share my house with them. But it's hard to hide blackened beaches and dead animals, so they owned up. And now we have a whole shit pot full of people whose lives have been irrevocably changed for the worse, and when you see the fucking gymnastics exercises BP wants to put the affected people through before they shell out any dough, well......fuck 'em.

Maybe very expensive oil prices would make importing vast amounts of disposable shit from China unprofitable and we might actually go back to making a few things here on a smaller, more local basis to avoid high transportation costs. Maybe we would consider not choosing to live 50 miles from our jobs. Maybe we would be a better, stronger, fitter country if our kids walked or rode bikes to school instead of being driven a mile or two in a 4000lb vehicle. Maybe America would be better off in the end for it.

OK. I guess I need to get busy doing something constructive. It is the 4th of July and all.

Time for America to be more "independent". I think I'll pedal my completely unlicensed, unregulated bike down to the store, buy a six pack of local brew, and enjoy a car free day. Don't get me wrong-I have a love of cars, but that's different than being totally dependent on one for every little errand.

Well said.

[Wiglaf]

I don't have much sympathy for them, everyone else in the US has to meet these rules, meanwhile TX gives them 16 years of special exemptions. At this point it would probably have cost them less to invest in some damn air scrubbers and at least pretend to care about the air people in TX breathe than to keep throwing money at political lube jobs.

You can piss and moan all you'd like about the EPA, I understand that some policies like with diesels are downright stupid and need to be rehashed.. But I very much appreciate how much cleaner Cleveland is now vs 40 years ago. Fussing with a cat is a small price to pay to avoid the city sitting in a cloud of asthma inducing smog. Having lakes and rivers that we can swim in and eat fish out of are worth a slightly higher energy price compared to the Cuyahoga river literally catching on fire. All of this IS making a difference.

[joshh]

Ever consider that if the oil companies didn't demonstrate such a willingness to fuck over the environment and endanger the livelihoods of millions of people with the sloppy profit-first-safety-second "it won't happen to US" corporate ethos, then maybe the feds wouldn't feel the need to super-nanny them to death? Imagine the oil companies going before congress with a century of well managed operations that showed respect for the communities surrounding their operations. They would have a good case for being left to their own regulation. That didn't happen though, and now Americans are screaming "how could you let this happen! Do something!"

It's clear that guys on that rig were blowing the whistle for a while, but somewhere, some middle manager said "screw it-keep going". Then the explosion occurred and BP fervently hoped they could quickly get things under control and lied about the amounts of oil leaking. Rush even said it was no big deal-the oil was as natural as seawater! True, but so are rattle snakes. Doesn't mean I want to share my house with them. But it's hard to hide blackened beaches and dead animals, so they owned up. And now we have a whole shit pot full of people whose lives have been irrevocably changed for the worse, and when you see the fucking gymnastics exercises BP wants to put the affected people through before they shell out any dough, well......fuck 'em.

Maybe very expensive oil prices would make importing vast amounts of disposable shit from China unprofitable and we might actually go back to making a few things here on a smaller, more local basis to avoid high transportation costs. Maybe we would consider not choosing to live 50 miles from our jobs. Maybe we would be a better, stronger, fitter country if our kids walked or rode bikes to school instead of being driven a mile or two in a 4000lb vehicle. Maybe America would be better off in the end for it.

OK. I guess I need to get busy doing something constructive. It is the 4th of July and all.

Time for America to be more "independent". I think I'll pedal my completely unlicensed, unregulated bike down to the store, buy a six pack of local brew, and enjoy a car free day. Don't get me wrong-I have a love of cars, but that's different than being totally dependent on one for every little errand.

Ever think that the Feds are part of that same problem! Do just a bit of research...

Yeah great lets do this right in the middle of a fucking recession. Fucking brilliant. Obviously you aren't smart enough to see why this is a very bad idea to do AT THIS TIME.

I'm starting to think you're a Marxist like your buddy Obama. You constantly justify and ignore what the guy does. And when he does it.

I'd bet you're also 100% for Cap and tax as well.

I don't have much sympathy for them, everyone else in the US has to meet these rules, meanwhile TX gives them 16 years of special exemptions. At this point it would probably have cost them less to invest in some damn air scrubbers and at least pretend to care about the air people in TX breathe than to keep throwing money at political lube jobs.

You can piss and moan all you'd like about the EPA, I understand that some policies like with diesels are downright stupid and need to be rehashed.. But I very much appreciate how much cleaner Cleveland is now vs 40 years ago. Fussing with a cat is a small price to pay to avoid the city sitting in a cloud of asthma inducing smog. Having lakes and rivers that we can swim in and eat fish out of are worth a slightly higher energy price compared to the Cuyahoga river literally catching on fire. All of this IS making a difference.

Keep ignoring the economic impact...

[mar1t1me]

Ooooooh I guess we just need to act like nothing's wrong!? What's your fix? Deregulate everything? There are too many people in America for the jobs available, now that we don't make anything anymore. More cheap oil and short term employment will not make things better for coming generations. Look farther down the road.

Quit blaming everything on O. It's tired, and intelligent people understand he is not the entire government.

[Wiglaf]

the economic impact? in my opinion would be cheaper in the long run to just spend a one-time shot to get the refineries running clean than a yearly host of bribes and special deals.
It's not like we're talking about cap and trade here.
This is no different than with power plants, they kick up a huge storm to avoid buying an air scrubber but in the scope of things it's a drop in the bucket. Especially with oil, the whole damn refinery has a return of investment less than 5 years.
You guys complaining about the feds not cracking down on their own laws, this shit has been going on for 16 years. If they went through the books and hit everyone, the impact would be HUGE.

[joshh]

Ooooooh I guess we just need to act like nothing's wrong!? What's your fix? Deregulate everything? There are too many people in America for the jobs available, now that we don't make anything anymore. More cheap oil and short term employment will not make things better for coming generations. Look farther down the road.

Quit blaming everything on O. It's tired, and intelligent people understand he is not the entire government.

Oh what a smart response. Lets just fuck this generation all together and cut the jobs that are left. Just brilliant there genius.
Cheap oil does help this country. In a huge way.

As if you of anyone can make an intelligence claim. Time you woke up and see this is part of the Obama plan. That's just a fact. But I don't expect a retard like yourself to actually put 2+2 together.

[joshh]

the economic impact? in my opinion would be cheaper in the long run to just spend a one-time shot to get the refineries running clean than a yearly host of bribes and special deals.
It's not like we're talking about cap and trade here.
This is no different than with power plants, they kick up a huge storm to avoid buying an air scrubber but in the scope of things it's a drop in the bucket. Especially with oil, the whole damn refinery has a return of investment less than 5 years.
You guys complaining about the feds not cracking down on their own laws, this shit has been going on for 16 years. If they went through the books and hit everyone, the impact would be HUGE.

There's this thing called timing. Get a clue.