When will the US begin taxing Churches?

[Farbin Kaiber]

God, changed his mind, like a girl... changing clothes.

Pretty much, but it's more along the lines of "I made this rulebook, and in this rulebook, it requires someone to follow all the rules, which is impossible, so I'll send my son, he'll complete the rulebook, then I'm free to make a new set of rules..." type thing, but yeah.

[Mossman]

That god, he's so hot then he's cold, he's yes then he's no, we fight we break up....i am upset I know so many of the words to that song

[Dozyproductions]

Actually, yes, they are all "out the window".

The definition of Testament is;

Main Entry: tes·ta·ment
Pronunciation: \ˈtes-tə-mənt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin testamentum covenant with God, holy scripture, from Latin, last will, from testari to be a witness, call to witness, make a will, from testis witness; akin to Latin tres three & to Latin stare to stand; from the witness's standing by as a third party in a litigation — more at three, stand
Date: 14th century

1 a archaic : a covenant between God and the human race b capitalized : either of two main divisions of the Bible
2 a : a tangible proof or tribute b : an expression of conviction : creed
3 a : an act by which a person determines the disposition of his or her property after death b : will

— tes·ta·men·ta·ry \ˌtes-tə-ˈmen-tə-rē, -ˈmen-trē\ adjective



In simple terms a will. So there is an "Old" Will of God, and a "New" Will of God.

So, go to court, ask a judge, and find out what Will will hold up in court.

God, changed his mind, like a girl... changing clothes.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Actually, yes, they are all "out the window".

The definition of Testament is;

Main Entry: tes·ta·ment
Pronunciation: \ˈtes-tə-mənt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin testamentum covenant with God, holy scripture, from Latin, last will, from testari to be a witness, call to witness, make a will, from testis witness; akin to Latin tres three & to Latin stare to stand; from the witness's standing by as a third party in a litigation — more at three, stand
Date: 14th century

1 a archaic : a covenant between God and the human race b capitalized : either of two main divisions of the Bible
2 a : a tangible proof or tribute b : an expression of conviction : creed
3 a : an act by which a person determines the disposition of his or her property after death b : will

— tes·ta·men·ta·ry \ˌtes-tə-ˈmen-tə-rē, -ˈmen-trē\ adjective



In simple terms a will. So there is an "Old" Will of God, and a "New" Will of God.

So, go to court, ask a judge, and find out what Will will hold up in court.

[mar1t1me]

The 10 Commandments are OT. Are they, too, out the window?

I do recall reading that Jesus said "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Would you agree those are fairly well ignored these days as well.....?

[Farbin Kaiber]

Actually, the contemporary image of the Christ didn't appear till, at earliest the 700's in Eastern Orthodoxy.

So the short hair to long 'fro w/ super beard was not prevalent in the time of Paul's writing, but a construct of Man at a later date.

And, furthermore, the laws of the Old Testament are not the basis of "NT Christianity" which usurps the laws of the OT.

[mar1t1me]

^^^The bible is seldom "clear" about anything. Of course Paul says "men should have short hair", but every picture of Jesus shows him with shoulder length BLOND hair....lol.....the Old Testament declares shellfish should never be eaten, nor should blended fabrics be worn. But I'd have to say it appears the majority of Christians ignore those inconvenient little "abominations".

So, getting back to the "good works" of churches.....if God wants people to be poor and/or hungry, then why should churches try to help them be less poor and/or hungry? ;-)

[Farbin Kaiber]

^^ the bible clearly states you cant get access to heaven by doing good works.

The thing about the bible, even though I agree with you, I could argue that from the opposite side.



The Book of James

2 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

2 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

2 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



But, like I said, I agree with you.

[dvs909]

^^ the bible clearly states you cant get access to heaven by doing good works.

[mar1t1me]

Would churches do the kind of community services some of them do if they weren't populated by superstitious people who fear eternal damnation?

In other words, it would be interesting to know what motivates their charitable side. Care for their fellow human, an attempt to do "good works" to ensure the free trip to heaven, or a mix of both?

What if mankind finally grew out of his superstitions and woke up to realize that the world didn't get the way it did due to "God's Plan", but instead it was a man-made mess. Would he begin to act in a way to ensure his viability, i.e. population and resource controls, space exploration (the world WILL end someday so if we want to survive, we will need a way to leave and a place to go), or will he continue his infantile, superstition-driven self-destructive ways?

Frankly, I believe, in the absence of some catalyzing event, we're doomed.:drink:

[mrsleeve]

I'd like you to show me some examples of the subsides and grants "churches" get from the US Federal Government.

this has been going on for some time now to help get on with the agenda's and getting it done and with the support of the churches and the people in them that would be the biggest nay sayer's

[decay]

I'd like you to show me some examples of the subsides and grants "churches" get from the US Federal Government.

i already did, on page 1 of this thread.

since you can't be bothered to click-through yourself-

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06616.pdf

it's pretty funny how spending on religious organizations gets a free pass from the teabagger movement, when anything else the government spends money on gets scrutiny on a near-molecular level.

i guess those fuckers aren't really libertarians after all.

[Farbin Kaiber]

I'd like you to show me some examples of the subsides and grants "churches" get from the US Federal Government.

[decay]

Did I ever say that tax exempt status religious organizations should receive government subsidies financed from taxpayers?

i didn't say you said that.

but the reality is, they are.

is it that hard to see my point?

if you want to conserve separation between church and state, how about we stop giving the churches the states' money first...

that is a more important discussion than "should we tax them".

like i said- whaddaya say we stop giving them our money in the first place, rather than figuring out how to get it back?

[Farbin Kaiber]

Did I ever say that tax exempt status religious organizations should receive government subsidies financed from taxpayers?