The more things change, the more they stay the same...

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  • Farbin Kaiber
    Lil' Puppet
    • Jul 2007
    • 29502

    #1

    The more things change, the more they stay the same...

    Some historic thoughts from Claude Frédéric Bastiat(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Bastiat)

    From his "The Law", 1850.



    Selected excerpts...

    The Complete Perversion of the Law

    But, unfortunately, law by no means confines itself to its proper functions. And when it has exceeded its proper functions, it has not done so merely in some inconsequential and debatable matters. The law has gone further than this; it has acted in direct opposition to its own purpose. The law has been used to destroy its own objective: It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right, in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense.
    How has this perversion of the law been accomplished? And what have been the results?



    The law has been perverted by the influence of two entirely different causes: stupid greed and false philanthropy. Let us speak of the first.
    Law Is Force

    Since the law organizes justice, the socialists ask why the law should not also organize labor, education, and religion.



    Why should not law be used for these purposes? Because it could not organize labor, education, and religion without destroying justice. We must remember that law is force, and that, consequently, the proper functions of the law cannot lawfully extend beyond the proper functions of force.
    When law and force keep a person within the bounds of justice, they impose nothing but a mere negation. They oblige him only to abstain from harming others. They violate neither his personality, his liberty, nor his property. They safeguard all of these. They are defensive; they defend equally the rights of all.
    The Socialists Wish to Play God

    Socialists look upon people as raw material to be formed into social combinations. This is so true that, if by chance, the socialists have any doubts about the success of these combinations, they will demand that a small portion of mankind be set aside to experiment upon. The popular idea of trying all systems is well known. And one socialist leader has been known seriously to demand that the Constituent Assembly give him a small district with all its inhabitants, to try his experiments upon.



    In the same manner, an inventor makes a model before he constructs the full-sized machine; the chemist wastes some chemicals -- the farmer wastes some seeds and land -- to try out an idea.



    But what a difference there is between the gardener and his trees, between the inventor and his machine, between the chemist and his elements, between the farmer and his seeds! And in all sincerity, the socialist thinks that there is the same difference between him and mankind!
    It is no wonder that the writers of the nineteenth century look upon society as an artificial creation of the legislator's genius. This idea -- the fruit of classical education -- has taken possession of all the intellectuals and famous writers of our country. To these intellectuals and writers, the relationship between persons and the legislator appears to be the same as the relationship between the clay and the potter.



    Moreover, even where they have consented to recognize a principle of action in the heart of man -- and a principle of discernment in man's intellect -- they have considered these gifts from God to be fatal gifts. They have thought that persons, under the impulse of these two gifts, would fatally tend to ruin themselves. They assume that if the legislators left persons free to follow their own inclinations, they would arrive at atheism instead of religion, ignorance instead of knowledge, poverty instead of production and exchange.
    A Fatal Tendency of Mankind

    Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.



    But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man -- in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.
    Property and Plunder

    Man can live and satisfy his wants only by ceaseless labor; by the ceaseless application of his faculties to natural resources. This process is the origin of property.



    But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder.



    Now since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain -- and since labor is pain in itself -- it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work. History shows this quite clearly. And under these conditions, neither religion nor morality can stop it.
    When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor.
    It is evident, then, that the proper purpose of law is to use the power of its collective force to stop this fatal tendency to plunder instead of to work. All the measures of the law should protect property and punish plunder.



    But, generally, the law is made by one man or one class of men. And since law cannot operate without the sanction and support of a dominating force, this force must be entrusted to those who make the laws.
    This fact, combined with the fatal tendency that exists in the heart of man to satisfy his wants with the least possible effort, explains the almost universal perversion of the law. Thus it is easy to understand how law, instead of checking injustice, becomes the invincible weapon of injustice. It is easy to understand why the law is used by the legislator to destroy in varying degrees among the rest of the people, their personal independence by slavery, their liberty by oppression, and their property by plunder. This is done for the benefit of the person who makes the law, and in proportion to the power that he holds.
    You might as well read the whole thing.
  • shiftbmw
    R3VLimited
    • Oct 2005
    • 2012

    #2
    I'm totally going to steal this.
    sigpic
    "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

    Comment

    • Farbin Kaiber
      Lil' Puppet
      • Jul 2007
      • 29502

      #3
      Steal the whole thing...

      Comment

      • shiftbmw
        R3VLimited
        • Oct 2005
        • 2012

        #4
        Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber
        Steal the whole thing...

        Stolen and posted on my forum. Thanks dude.
        sigpic
        "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

        Comment

        • Farbin Kaiber
          Lil' Puppet
          • Jul 2007
          • 29502

          #5
          Stolen the access to postwhore your forum. Thanks dude.


          EDIT: Am I free to rant? I am a USA made product whore whenever possible.
          Last edited by Farbin Kaiber; 07-21-2010, 11:09 PM.

          Comment

          • shiftbmw
            R3VLimited
            • Oct 2005
            • 2012

            #6
            Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber
            Stolen the access to postwhore your forum. Thanks dude.


            EDIT: Am I free to rant? I am a USA made product whore whenever possible.
            You are free to rant/postwhore away. I'm trying to get this thing off the ground so the more posts and posters the merrier.
            sigpic
            "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

            Comment

            • mrsleeve
              I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
              • Mar 2005
              • 16385

              #7
              I suppose I will sign up, You need more jeffeson quotes, and will inevitable need a voice of reason, to counter all the hippies, and greenies you will attract. That and I buy lots of US made products and is one of my major buying considerations.
              Originally posted by Fusion
              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
              William Pitt-

              Comment

              • Farbin Kaiber
                Lil' Puppet
                • Jul 2007
                • 29502

                #8
                Just wait until they pass legislation, (When Congress is on Vaykay), for the newest branch, the Green Caloric Intake Advisory Coalition. Pretty soon, your USDA suggested intake of 2,000 calories will be delivered to your door, removing the need to buy groceries.

                Comment

                • gwb72tii
                  No R3VLimiter
                  • Nov 2005
                  • 3864

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber
                  Just wait until they pass legislation, (When Congress is on Vaykay), for the newest branch, the Green Caloric Intake Advisory Coalition. Pretty soon, your USDA suggested intake of 2,000 calories will be delivered to your door, removing the need to buy groceries.
                  ever see the movie soylent green?

                  nasty
                  “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
                  Sir Winston Churchill

                  Comment

                  • naplesE30
                    E30 Mastermind
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 1830

                    #10
                    So so sad, just read about the new legislation requiring that my son who is due Aug 5th will have his BMI tracked for life... Un fucking real. But he will have FREE healthcare, or wait, no he wont because I WORK for a living, so I pay for my family health insurance.

                    Comment

                    • mrsleeve
                      I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 16385

                      #11
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                      Too bad BMI has no real use. It was developed hundered years or so ago to figure out how many people you can fit on a fucking train, it has no medical basis.

                      I am 30, 6'0, and 205, and my BMI is considered high side over weight borderline Obese. WTF I am a skinny gangley fucker too. BMI Dose not take things like Bone mass, muscle mass, and what not into account.
                      Originally posted by Fusion
                      If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                      The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                      The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                      William Pitt-

                      Comment

                      • einhander
                        R3VLimited
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 2024

                        #12
                        Simply amazing.
                        2011 1M Alpine white/black
                        1996 Civic white/black
                        1988 M3 lachs/black

                        Comment

                        • anabolice30
                          E30 Modder
                          • Jul 2013
                          • 946

                          #13
                          Originally posted by mrsleeve
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                          Too bad BMI has no real use. It was developed hundered years or so ago to figure out how many people you can fit on a fucking train, it has no medical basis.

                          I am 30, 6'0, and 205, and my BMI is considered high side over weight borderline Obese. WTF I am a skinny gangley fucker too. BMI Dose not take things like Bone mass, muscle mass, and what not into account.
                          BMI is actually of great use, because America is a nature of sedentary creatures, not bodybuilders. Bodyfat % is better, but I hate all the fatasses who act like BMI tells nothing. 6'0 205 is overweight. Maybe not in America, but it is definitely overweight by all accounts. A guy at my gym is 6'2 and 190, of muscle and he is absolutely massive.

                          Comment

                          • einhander
                            R3VLimited
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 2024

                            #14
                            My nutsack weighs 205 pounds.
                            2011 1M Alpine white/black
                            1996 Civic white/black
                            1988 M3 lachs/black

                            Comment

                            • ParsedOut
                              E30 Fanatic
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 1437

                              #15
                              Originally posted by einhander
                              My nutsack weighs 205 pounds.

                              Comment

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