Prop 8

[mar1t1me]

There are plenty of places to build a Mosque in NYC

2.5 blocks from ground zero is not one of them.

It's a slap in the face.

So, how many blocks is the right distance? The respectful distance?

If one is trying to maintain that Islamic faith itself, rather than a small group of deluded and misguided men, propagated 9/11 then I maintain there is NO respectful distance.

The real slap in the face is that one of the owners of Fox News has donated significant amounts of money to building the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, which is actually not at ground zero, nor is it singularly a Mosque.

[mar1t1me]

Gay is purely unnatural. That's all there really is to it.

This hoary old screed again? Never mind homosexual behavior is observed in hundreds of animal species, including humans....this is the chant of the uninformed, scientifically illiterate fundamentalist. I do believe the Muslims hate homosexuality, and also warn against masturbation, since it "weakens the spine, causes the semen to become thin and insipid, and leads to mental illness"....more great science!

I'll tell you what's unnatural: celibacy! Accordingly, celibacy in animals is extremely rare.

I personally cannot imagine being attracted to the same sex, but that doesn't mean it's not completely normal for others.....

[BraveUlysses]

Essentially we are saying the same thing,

"The Prop 8 ruling, on the other hand, is less decisive and more complicated. Prop 8 is a 2008 California ballot initiative that prohibited same-sex marriage by amending the state’s constitution. The case was dismissed today on the basis that the petitioners don’t have standing; since the California courts have already struck down Prop 8, the lawyers opposing the bill don’t have standing to defend it. This means the court has effectively validated the rulings of lower courts that have rejected Prop 8."

[2761377]

You're still missing the point--the people can vote for shitty state initiatives but that doesn't mean that they're constitutionally sound. Which is why SCOTUS upheld the 9th court's overturn of prop 8.

actually, this is only partially correct. supreme court did not rule on the merits of the case and did not uphold 9th circuit. the case was dismissed, the court held the lawyers defending prop 8 had no legal standing to do so.

what should of happened, had gov brown and atty gen harris posessed any integrity was that they would have defended the measure. that they didn't is effectively a veto of a popularly and properly enacted constitional amendment. but they're democraps, what do you expect.

last but not least, scalia voted with the majority on this opinion.

[Arems87e]

this is a good thing.
there are minorities groups of KKK, white power, murders, thieves among others that we don't want them to have a say.

also this crap that marriage is a right is complete bull. a right is something that you are born with, does not depend on age, race, gender, religion, etc. A right involves 1 person. a marriage is a religious thing, turned governmental. it involves more than one person to make happen, is restricted by age and amount of persons.
yes all people deserve to be treated fairly, weather single, gay, straight, trans. but marriage is not a right, driving is not a right, voting is not a right, a job is not a right. i think you get my point. I had to ask my wife for her permission to marry her... I had no right to marry her without that.

stop calling a privilege a right!

Good post...

Apparently only the gays have rights these days. as much as they are quick to call Christians hypocrites, they don't see the hypocrisy in their own cause. Lets fight to overturn the peoples right to choose/decide an issue.

[z31maniac]

exactly. the government should not have the right to dictate who can and cannot be married. they should also not offer benefits for married people, bc it screw those who dont want to get married.

marriage should be strickly a religious thing that is not recognized by the government

Social engineering through the tax code is a different debate.

Focus.

But again, the origins of marriage aren't religious, why should it now be the sole bastion of religion? Just like getting married for love is a relatively new concept.

The Catholic church for example didn't even try to officially co-opt marriage until the Council of Trent!

[Cabriolet]

And which religion might that be exactly? Mormon? Muslim? How about Scientologist. Be specific man. Why religion has the privilege to marry people and which doesn't? Do you still have a right... I mean privilege to to get married if you don't belong to any religion?

exactly. the government should not have the right to dictate who can and cannot be married. they should also not offer benefits for married people, bc it screw those who dont want to get married.

marriage should be strickly a religious thing that is not recognized by the government

[tjts1]

The fact that gay marriage is now recognized isn't the biggest issue. What happened yesterday is just an underlying example of them stripping our freedoms and sugarcoating it. The "people" voted for something, the government overturned it. Whether you're for gay marriage or not, both sides got cheated. One side was stripped of the victory, the other side won in an unfair manner.

Theres this pesky little document called the constitution (you might have heard of it) that gives the the supreme court the right to over turn any law that it deemed unconstitutional. You might want to go look that up some day once you're done bitching and moaning.

this is a good thing.
there are minorities groups of KKK, white power, murders, thieves among others that we don't want them to have a say.

also this crap that marriage is a right is complete bull. a right is something that you are born with, does not depend on age, race, gender, religion, etc. A right involves 1 person. a marriage is a religious thing, turned governmental. it involves more than one person to make happen, is restricted by age and amount of persons.
yes all people deserve to be treated fairly, weather single, gay, straight, trans. but marriage is not a right, driving is not a right, voting is not a right, a job is not a right. i think you get my point. I had to ask my wife for her permission to marry her... I had no right to marry her without that.

stop calling a privilege a right!

And which religion might that be exactly? Mormon? Muslim? How about Scientologist. Be specific man. Why religion has the privilege to marry people and which doesn't? Do you still have a right... I mean privilege to to get married if you don't belong to any religion?

[Dozyproductions]

this is a good thing.
there are minorities groups of KKK, white power, murders, thieves among others that we don't want them to have a say.

also this crap that marriage is a right is complete bull. a right is something that you are born with, does not depend on age, race, gender, religion, etc. A right involves 1 person. a marriage is a religious thing, turned governmental. it involves more than one person to make happen, is restricted by age and amount of persons.
yes all people deserve to be treated fairly, weather single, gay, straight, trans. but marriage is not a right, driving is not a right, voting is not a right, a job is not a right. i think you get my point. I had to ask my wife for her permission to marry her... I had no right to marry her without that.

stop calling a privilege a right!

ouch. Marriage is a right. If two people want to be joined together for the rest of their lives and start a family... how does a religion or a government say if you can or not? Perhaps the intent or meaning is where you can inject religion into that idea but nothing else, since it's a right.

Take some of your concepts and strip them to the most simplistic concepts. Voting is a right. Just because we've had millennia of monarchistic style of rule doesn't mean that vote isn't a right. It's just that it's been suppressed. Remember the... I think therefore I am? What are you if you don't have a voice for your own ideas and life?

Also respect should be earned but there is a certain level of respect that should be regarded. We after all can all relate to each other for belonging to humanity. (refer to JFK speech) That's why discussion these days mutes itself. Shit escalates too quickly because of that general lack of any respect towards one and another. If you think some one is too stupid then just be okay with thinking them stupid instead of trying to some how convince them that they are. Full circle.

[Cabriolet]

Again kids, do your research. The idea of "marriage" originated in ancient Greece long before the bible was written. And guess what? It was a secular agreement.

whoa now. loose the name calling. and do more research and not just quote people about your "origination" of marriage. before the Greeks there was marriage in Egypt, and there is a lot of proof of this. and also when do you think the Bible was written, because there is proof of it's writings far earlier then you may realize. and there is proof of the Israelites performing marriage ceremony before the time of the Greeks.

[z31maniac]

No wrong foot, you tried to assert your inaccurate description of the US Government as fact. I called you on it.

And I didn't say it nicely, call the Waaaahhhmbulance.

What I was trying to originally say was this. We the people were given the "privilege" to vote, that vote was overturned in the judicial court. What was the point of the vote.

To allow intellectually inferior individuals to deny Federal and State benefits from same-sex couples based on religious dogma?

Thankfully, the court overturned this mob rule. What should be frightening to people is that it was such a narrow margin. This should have been a 9-0 vote to overturn, in fact, it should have never made it to the Supreme Court.

[BraveUlysses]

You're still missing the point--the people can vote for shitty state initiatives but that doesn't mean that they're constitutionally sound. Which is why SCOTUS upheld the 9th court's overturn of prop 8.

[IronFreak]

I truly feel like we got off on the wrong foot. My definition of democracy and a republic might have been wrong and I'm willing to admit that, but believe me when I say, I am NO hippie. I'm a very hard working American that does not live by the on going feeling of I'm entitled to things. I'm not a liberal feel good hipster.

What I was trying to originally say was this. We the people were given the "privilege" to vote, that vote was overturned in the judicial court. What was the point of the vote.

[z31maniac]

this is a good thing.
there are minorities groups of KKK, white power, murders, thieves among others that we don't want them to have a say.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this, but OK.

also this crap that marriage is a right is complete bull. a right is something that you are born with, does not depend on age, race, gender, religion, etc. A right involves 1 person. a marriage is a religious thing, turned governmental. it involves more than one person to make happen, is restricted by age and amount of persons.

Again kids, do your research. The idea of "marriage" originated in ancient Greece long before the bible was written. And guess what? It was a secular agreement.

Marriage being intertwined with "Holy Matrimony" was actually high jacked by the church.

stop calling a privilege a right!

This is correct.

[z31maniac]

I find it really frustrating when trying to have a mature conversation that your feel the need to come in a personally attack me and what I think. It's pretty hypocritical that you chose that route to explain how you can't trample on people rights.

I have the right to be treated with respect.

You are very confused. While you think you may deserve respect, you are not entitled to it in any way, shape, or form.

See actually, I can treat you however I want as long as I don't infringe on your rights. And telling you that you are stupid is well within my 1st Amendment right.

Your attitude is part of the problem. All this hippy, liberal feel good, we are all special crap has some how allowed people who are completely wrong and uneducated about a topic to feel empowered to speak on it because "they are entitled to an opinion."

And you are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't mean your opinion is correct.