FORBES controversial article: "How Obama Thinks"

[z31maniac]

You're rambling, your grammar is slipping, and you are missing my implication entirely.

1 - Health care is not a morality question. Gay marriage, interracial marriage, attempts to control substances, gender discrimination, those are morality questions. (make a mental note about which group of people is a huge fan of governing those questions ;)) Health care is about right to life. It's also interesting that you wrote "health care for everyone at everyone elses expense". This phrasing suggests that you think that you will end up paying for someone else's healthcare AND your own, which is illogical. For the record, I am strongly opposed to government influence in my personal opinions, tendencies, beliefs, and actions, so I'm not really sure where you got the idea that this was not the case.

How is the "responsibility" to take of others NOT a morality issue?

2 - You talk about how telling people how to live their life is not about your morality, but about "doing the right thing". Do you disagree that your own personal morality (regardless of its source) is what tells you what "the right thing" is?

Refer back to your first post. Also, as has been stated before, when it comes to using YOUR OWN MONEY, it's proven time and time again that CONSERVATIVES donate more of their own money vs being generous with everyone elses money, in other words, taxes.

3 - Notice how whenever you get laid off, you get an unemployment check regardless of your opinions. When you get your next one, I'd like you to send it back to the government so that they can refund it back to the people who actually pay income taxes. If you believe in Capitalism so strongly, you should have performed well enough to remain employable, or accept that by definition, some members of a Capitalist ecosystem will fail.

Then eliminate the unemployment tax that employers have to pay for that, and I will no longer expect it as BENEFIT OF EMPLOYMENT. Yup, that's right, people get unemployment benefits as a result of taxes they/their employer pay while they are employed. Ever wonder why someone who makes minimum wage gets less for unemployment than I would if I lost my job tomorrow? You are doing an awfully good job of twisting things to suit your argument.


4 - "anyone that adheres to the Socialist view is claiming that someone owe's them something. So, start living your convictions. [...] I expect you to toss me 10% or so of your monthly wages to help me." Wait, what? Am I the Socialist here, or are you?

I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at with this statement, so I'll ask for further clarification please.

Bonus - my implication was that my opinions make me a "Socialist" to about the same degree that your opinions make you a "Bible-thumpin' loony Christian". The application of these labels is meaningless, it misses important distinctions and sets up thousands of strawmen. You're quick to become defensive of your loony Bible-thumpin' ways, though :p

And I'm no bible thumper here.

Just for the record.

[markseven]

I've been planning to. As a trained, educated professional my passage is guaranteed. I'm currently staying in the States because my parents are here and need my financial assistance to become solvent. When that happens, I am moving on.

eCredentials FTW.

[markseven]

My point was that the Conservative Swedish PM's opinions on social issues show that his speech was given from a viewpoint that is much farther to the left than you seemed to imply. In accordance, what he calls "socialism" refers to something significantly more socialist than Sweden's present state, and his efforts in moving back from that cliff have put Sweden in a position that still very much a social democracy. In short, he doesn't agree with you.



It's working out pretty well for the Swedish people these days.

I didn't mention conservative or liberal, nor is that the point.

And you are welcome to interperate the speech in any manner you wish.

[Dozyproductions]

attempts to control substances

Just wanted to add, everyone I've talked to who opposes big government also opposes prop 19. Irrelevant stoner thought for the day. :)

[kronus]

You should start applying!

I've been planning to. As a trained, educated professional my passage is guaranteed. I'm currently staying in the States because my parents are here and need my financial assistance to become solvent. When that happens, I am moving on.

[kronus]

Socialist's are all about Governing morality, bud. Their morality they impose upon society. I.e. Health Care for everyone at everyone elses expense. How are you not connecting the dots?

Strange how you imply that I'm a Bible Thumpin' Loony Christian but I've yet to prostalitize anyone here nor make my views on things anymore about God besides calling for a mediocrum of respect in regards to how some voice their opinions. I've yet to post a 101 quotes from Christian's in reference to Athiests, or in your case, Socialist Commies.

I could care less how you live your life but I do feel that people who love and care about you, if there are any, should tell you the truth. And if the truth is, dating a herpes infested hooker because she has large tits is in fact, dangerous, I hope someone, no no, I pray someone that's close let's you know that despite your reaction. Calling out wrong doing and evil men is has less to do with my "religious" orientation or "sense" of morality and more about doing the right thing. Something I hope everyone would do regardless of "religious" bent. But, you wrongfully discredit me because I've been open? Mmm. Strange, I don't discredit your views except when they truly are unproven falsehoods or lies. Such as Commie Ideal loving jerk offs like to propogate. It's no one's fault but you're own and anyone that adheres to the Socialist view is claiming that someone owe's them something. So, start living your convictions. My Paypal is ck_taft@hotmail.com and I've got a wife and child at home while I'm facing a lay off. None of that "rationalizing" away of my need by saying I was productive or "smart" enough to get a more stable job. I've busted my ass and continue to do so. There's no harm in getting your hands dirty, but sometimes things just don't work out and we're, "in need". So, I expect you to toss me 10% or so of your monthly wages to help me.

That's what your "convictions" in relation to everyone else call for. Live it. My Paypal is waiting.

You're rambling, your grammar is slipping, and you are missing my implication entirely.

1 - Health care is not a morality question. Gay marriage, interracial marriage, attempts to control substances, gender discrimination, those are morality questions. (make a mental note about which group of people is a huge fan of governing those questions ;)) Health care is about right to life. It's also interesting that you wrote "health care for everyone at everyone elses expense". This phrasing suggests that you think that you will end up paying for someone else's healthcare AND your own, which is illogical. For the record, I am strongly opposed to government influence in my personal opinions, tendencies, beliefs, and actions, so I'm not really sure where you got the idea that this was not the case.

2 - You talk about how telling people how to live their life is not about your morality, but about "doing the right thing". Do you disagree that your own personal morality (regardless of its source) is what tells you what "the right thing" is?

3 - Notice how whenever you get laid off, you get an unemployment check regardless of your opinions. When you get your next one, I'd like you to send it back to the government so that they can refund it back to the people who actually pay income taxes. If you believe in Capitalism so strongly, you should have performed well enough to remain employable, or accept that by definition, some members of a Capitalist ecosystem will fail.

4 - "anyone that adheres to the Socialist view is claiming that someone owe's them something. So, start living your convictions. [...] I expect you to toss me 10% or so of your monthly wages to help me." Wait, what? Am I the Socialist here, or are you?

Bonus - my implication was that my opinions make me a "Socialist" to about the same degree that your opinions make you a "Bible-thumpin' loony Christian". The application of these labels is meaningless, it misses important distinctions and sets up thousands of strawmen. You're quick to become defensive of your loony Bible-thumpin' ways, though :p

[Vedubin01]

It's working out pretty well for the Swedish people these days.

You should start applying!

[kronus]

My pick and choose was relevant to previous posts ;)

My point was that the Conservative Swedish PM's opinions on social issues show that his speech was given from a viewpoint that is much farther to the left than you seemed to imply. In accordance, what he calls "socialism" refers to something significantly more socialist than Sweden's present state, and his efforts in moving back from that cliff have put Sweden in a position that still very much a social democracy. In short, he doesn't agree with you.

SD may have functioned well from the early 1900's -1970, but hasn't worked so well since.

It's working out pretty well for the Swedish people these days.

[ck_taft325is]

Socialist's are all about Governing morality, bud. Their morality they impose upon society. I.e. Health Care for everyone at everyone elses expense. How are you not connecting the dots?

Strange how you imply that I'm a Bible Thumpin' Loony Christian but I've yet to prostalitize anyone here nor make my views on things anymore about God besides calling for a mediocrum of respect in regards to how some voice their opinions. I've yet to post a 101 quotes from Christian's in reference to Athiests, or in your case, Socialist Commies.

I could care less how you live your life but I do feel that people who love and care about you, if there are any, should tell you the truth. And if the truth is, dating a herpes infested hooker because she has large tits is in fact, dangerous, I hope someone, no no, I pray someone that's close let's you know that despite your reaction. Calling out wrong doing and evil men is has less to do with my "religious" orientation or "sense" of morality and more about doing the right thing. Something I hope everyone would do regardless of "religious" bent. But, you wrongfully discredit me because I've been open? Mmm. Strange, I don't discredit your views except when they truly are unproven falsehoods or lies. Such as Commie Ideal loving jerk offs like to propogate. It's no one's fault but you're own and anyone that adheres to the Socialist view is claiming that someone owe's them something. So, start living your convictions. My Paypal is ck_taft@hotmail.com and I've got a wife and child at home while I'm facing a lay off. None of that "rationalizing" away of my need by saying I was productive or "smart" enough to get a more stable job. I've busted my ass and continue to do so. There's no harm in getting your hands dirty, but sometimes things just don't work out and we're, "in need". So, I expect you to toss me 10% or so of your monthly wages to help me.

That's what your "convictions" in relation to everyone else call for. Live it. My Paypal is waiting.

[Vedubin01]

You're obviously aware that Sweden and Switzerland are completely different countries.

That I do but as I was reading over your post, I was just reading up on Switzerland.

I know the difference from a Volvo and a Swiss watch


btw... Sweden is still the same size as Chicago...

[kronus]

So Kronus is a socialist? Or you agree with Socialist views and Governing Morality? You sir, are worse than the worst "loony bible thumpin' Christian".

I'm as much a socialist as you are a loony bible thumpin' Christian. I hope the implication is clear.

Also, I'm not sure where I mentioned agreeing with "Governing Morality", a historically loony bible thumpin' past-time.

Also also, I'm happy to see that you are ignorant enough to attempt to rubber-stamp "socialist" on everything. The over-simplification suits you.

[kronus]

btw... Switzerland is smaller than the city of Chicago.... The United States has a lot more worthless trash than what fits inside of Chicago.


and a little note...

Switzerland has the toughest naturalization rules in Europe. If you want to become Swiss you must live in the country legally for at least 12 years—and pay taxes, and have no criminal record—before you can apply for citizenship. It still does not mean that your wish will be granted, however, and the fact that you were born in Zurich or Lugano does not make any difference. There are no "amnesties" and illegals are deported if caught. Even if an applicant satisfies all other conditions, the local community in which he resides has the final say: it can interview the applicant and hold a public vote before naturalization is approved. If rejected he can apply again, but only after ten years.

You're obviously aware that Sweden and Switzerland are completely different countries.

[Vedubin01]

btw... Switzerland is smaller than the city of Chicago.... The United States has a lot more worthless trash than what fits inside of Chicago.


and a little note...

Switzerland has the toughest naturalization rules in Europe. If you want to become Swiss you must live in the country legally for at least 12 years—and pay taxes, and have no criminal record—before you can apply for citizenship. It still does not mean that your wish will be granted, however, and the fact that you were born in Zurich or Lugano does not make any difference. There are no "amnesties" and illegals are deported if caught. Even if an applicant satisfies all other conditions, the local community in which he resides has the final say: it can interview the applicant and hold a public vote before naturalization is approved. If rejected he can apply again, but only after ten years.

[ck_taft325is]

So Kronus is a socialist? Or you agree with Socialist views and Governing Morality? You sir, are worse than the worst "loony bible thumpin' Christian".

[markseven]

^^ if you want to pick and choose from the PM's speech, so do I:



Oh no! Universal Edumacation! The horrible government wants to brainwash my children!

and a bit below that:



Global warming is real!!! Climate policy! Regulation! This is madness!


Swedish social democracy has functioned well since the 1930's. Currently, after four years of the conservative government, it still has much more social welfare and benefits than the U.S., including free universal health care. You have to appreciate the PM's comments in that context, not in the American context where "socialism" currently refers to "having nonzero taxes".

My pick and choose was relevant to previous posts ;)

SD may have functioned well from the early 1900's -1970, but hasn't worked so well since.