Chevy Volt just a regular hybrid after all

[dkbmxer002]

just where do you think electricity comes from?
more electric cars means more demand for electricity from fossil fueled power plants

go nuclear.
fuck the prius.
alot of people need to sit their happy ass in library and learn before speaking.

[dkbmxer002]

2011 Chevy Volt But Volt's true nature may actually be an improvement, plus early reviews are complementary


In the week when auto editors turned in their first reviews of test drives of General Motors' upcoming 2011 Chevy Volt, there's been a bizarre twist that's largely overshadowed these initial impressions.

In a wild twist, Larry Nitz, GM's executive director of electric and hybrid powertrain engineering, has revealed that the gasoline engine actually will drive the Volt mechanically.

Previously, GM had maintained that the Volt was a battery electric vehicle (BEV). When the battery's 40-mile range (since revised to "25 to 50 miles") was nearing exhaustion, a turbocharged 1.0-liter 3-cylinder gasoline engine kicked in, supply electrical current directly to the batteries and motor to provide more than 200 extra miles in range.

That platform was known as "E-Flex". But unbeknownst to anyone, GM was pulling a bait and switch.

Today, Mr. Nitz revealed that actual powertrain. The Volt, it turns out, is not a BEV like the 2011 Nissan Leaf. It is actually a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) like the 2012 Ford Focus or 2012 Toyota Prius EV.

The internal combustion engine (ICE) -- now a 1.4L 84 hp 4-cylinder design -- and the 149 hp permanent-magnet AC electric motor both feed into a planetary gear set and three electronically controlled, hydraulically activated multi-plate clutches. The resulting automatic transmission is marvel of electro-mechanical engineering offering a blend of efficiency and power. The entire powertrain is bolted together to minimize noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) and reduce space usage.

Arguably this advanced transmission is much better for customers than what GM initially said it was offering. As Ford Motor Company pointed out in our recent interview with their head of electrification, BEVs suffer from poor performance in cold or hot weather, as the battery's performance deteriorates sharply.

So why the bizarre farce on GM's part in claiming its BEV was really a PHEV, when the actual design would be more beneficial to the majority of customers? Mr. Nitz claims that GM had to deceive the public in order to secure its patents on its unique transmission. Now with the patents in hand, he was free to go public with the new powertrain platform, dubbed "Voltec", he says.

Turning to what GM had intended to be the focus this week, MotorTrend and The Detroit News have taken their first drives in the upcoming PHEV and are quite enthusiastic.

The Detroit News writes:

After I drove more than 32 miles on electric power only — in a very un-eco-friendly manner — the Volt’s little engine began powering the car. This was the moment I had been waiting for: It’s one thing to power a car with batteries, but it’s revolutionary to have a gas engine supply the power to electric motors.
The succession of power is more seamless than a presidential election. The engine is quiet and keeps humming along. There’s never a glitch, a pause or a moment when the engine noticeably kicks on or off. For the most part, once the initial battery charge is drained, the engine produces the electric power to drive the motor.
...

Most of all, there's nothing to adjust to in the Volt. My 75-mile trip used a total of 0.9 gallons of gasoline. But I would have been happy to drive farther.

And MotorTrend opines:

The Volt is no sports car, but it blows Toyota's plug-in Prius away (9.8 seconds to 60 mph), and runs neck and neck with a 2.4-liter Malibu in acceleration and handling tests. Figure-eight performance is virtually identical at 28.4 seconds and 0.59 g, and the Volt's 119-foot stops from 60 mph are just 3 feet longer-impressive, given its 226-pound weight disadvantage and low-rolling-resistance tires. (The Prius weighs 376 pounds less than the Volt, yet it just matches its 0.78g lateral grip, trails both Chevys by 0.4 second on the figure eight, and needs 131 feet to stop from 60 mph.)


Based on these reports it appears that GM's "surprise" of the ICE hooking up directly to the transmission to drive the wheels seems indeed to be a good one. On the other hand, many will likely dwell on the fact that GM pulled a bait-and-switch on the customer.

After all, some customers really want an honest-to-goodness BEV and may now being a bit bummed that they instead ordered what essentially amounts to a souped up plug-in hybrid. Others have been vocal critics of the vehicle (and GM in general) and will likely jump on GM's deception as a platform to attack the vehicle (and GM in general).

Perhaps GM was right -- they had to mislead the public to protect their intellectual property. But the move was certainly a very bad decision in terms of public relations. GM can only hope that the public settles down and comes to realize the bottom line -- that it's offering them a superior package than what it initially promised to deliver.

[call me jack]

i was lead to believe that the car was designed in a way the that gasoline engine was only to charge the battery for the electric motor, acting as a generator. seeing as i was test on this in school, i'm going to stand by it.

[mrsleeve]

go nuclear.
fuck the prius.
alot of people need to sit their happy ass in library and learn before speaking.

Again with the GOVT, NOT LETTING US BUILD THEM. Just like they have not let us build New and better Refineries in about as long (since the 70's)

All thought that be a changing as I think I read recently there have been 3 permits to build Nuke plants approved by FERC and the EPA and state agencies, 2 I think have broken ground in GA and the 3rd I think is due to start construction 2ed quarter of next year in Pikesville OH. on the old US army Nuke lab site.

[dkbmxer002]

Again with the GOVT, NOT LETTING US BUILD THEM. Just like they have not let us build New and better Refineries in about as long (since the 70's)

All thought that be a changing as I think I read recently there have been 3 permits to build Nuke plants approved by FERC and the EPA and state agencies, 2 I think have broken ground in GA and the 3rd I think is due to start construction 2ed quarter of next year in Pikesville OH. on the old US army Nuke lab site.

that's my point, we need to get ride of this retarded idea that we shouldn't progress in nuclear power.

[joshh]

i was lead to believe that the car was designed in a way the that gasoline engine was only to charge the battery for the electric motor, acting as a generator. seeing as i was test on this in school, i'm going to stand by it.

It powers the wheels. GM flat out lied about this from the start.

[u3b3rg33k]

the prius is a POS too, so one POS kicks another POS

i hate GM since they fucked me as a 19yr old. owned a vega thay may as well been a 2 stroke motor it burned so much oil. 26,000 miles on the motor, 50,000 mile warranty, and the dealer said 400 miles/quart of oil was not bad enough to fix the motor

GM can't die fast enough

$41k for a chevy that can't go 100 miles on a charge
what a fucking sick joke

Really? Have you ever done the math to figure out what size battery bank it would take to go 100 miles?

at 20-25mph, it would take 1800AH@72v of lead acid batteries in a GEM vehicle to get you to 100 miles. That's a 1500lb battery array, that'll run you $6k if you pay retail for sealed AGM deep cycle batteries. Go look up the cost (and volume) of LiFePO4 batteries at the same capacity.

Battery technology has come a long way, but it's still not magic. I think a 30-40 mile range on batteries alone is rather impressive, not to mention how could you not have a gas/diesel generator to keep it running after that?

There is no system in place to let you pull off the road, recharge in 5 minutes, pay, and get going again. Not having an onboard genset is stupid.

[u3b3rg33k]

It powers the wheels. GM flat out lied about this from the start.

Boo hoo. They probably did the math and figured if you're running at X speed while cruising, it's more efficient to clutch in the engine to the wheels.

As for lying, isn't it kinda hard to lie about something that doesn't exist yet? Until they're on showroom floors, everything can change.

I Know that dumb fuck, That still dose not change the laws of physics and the retarded regulation of the ultra efficient engines due to tossing those laws out the window.

Just because the empirical gallon is 20% larger will no net a 50% gain in MPG or even double it.

Lets see, take IMP gallons, and a modern 1.2L non-turbo diesel in a small car, and oh look mommy, 70mpg isn't that hard to get.
It'd be slow as fuck and I'd hate driving it. I wonder why no one tries to sell them to me?

[mrsleeve]

Lets see, take IMP gallons, and a modern 1.2L non-turbo diesel in a small car, and oh look mommy, 70mpg isn't that hard to get.
It'd be slow as fuck and I'd hate driving it. I wonder why no one tries to sell them to me?

Do I need to explain the physics of this again.

lets use a small amount of critical thinking for just a second here. So I dont have go though the physics of it all AGAIN.

A standard us gallon of gas has 136,000 BTU of energy in it. an imperial gallon is 20% larger than a US gallon right.

136000 x .20 = 27,200 more BTU for a total of 163,200 BTU per Imperial gallon.

Now if a car gets 30mpg per us gallon

136,000 / 30 = 4533.3 BTU used per mile.

27,200 / 4533.3 = 6 More miles of energy in an imperal gallon over a US gallon. For this example


Or 30mpg x 20% = 6 miles.

Even if you get 50mpg per Us gallon all you are going to get with a Imperial gallon is 60mpg.

Your argument does not hold up well. Just because you add some volume to the unit of measure, only means you are gonna get a corresponding amount of increase in distance traveled, nothing more nothing less.

I urge you to look into Ultra efficient engines and NOx emissions and the EPA.

[u3b3rg33k]

I regularly watch top gear, i remember one where Jeremy got 800 miles range out of a big audi A8, and in many shows they talk about small cars getting 40, 50 and even 75 MPG, how come euro market cars do so well, where in america if a car gets 30 mpg it is considered great?

Do I need to explain the physics of this again.

lets use a small amount of critical thinking for just a second here. So I dont have go though the physics of it all AGAIN.

A standard us gallon of gas has 136,000 BTU of energy in it. an imperial gallon is 20% larger than a US gallon right.

136000 x .20 = 27,200 more BTU for a total of 163,200 BTU per Imperial gallon.

Now if a car gets 30mpg per us gallon

136,000 / 30 = 4533.3 BTU used per mile.

27,200 / 4533.3 = 6 More miles of energy in an imperal gallon over a US gallon. For this example


Or 30mpg x 20% = 6 miles.

Even if you get 50mpg per Us gallon all you are going to get with a Imperial gallon is 60mpg.

Your argument does not hold up well.

I urge you to look into Ultra efficient engines and NOx emissions and the EPA.

How now brown cow?

Heck, it's easy to get 45mpg US in a slushbox TDI beetle. That's what, 50 something imp mpg?

I'd say 60mpg is right in the middle of 45-70mpg. Don't forget that it's not that hard to beat the estimates in a tiny car if you even think about trying. Our '82 rabbit L would average mid 30s and that's with no overdrive gear.

Part of the problem with city MPG in the US is heavy vehicles. Shit's heavy, son. Rabbits just barely broke a ton.

[mrsleeve]

How now brown cow?

Heck, it's easy to get 45mpg US in a slushbox TDI beetle. That's what, 50 something imp mpg?

I'd say 60mpg is right in the middle of 45-70mpg. Don't forget that it's not that hard to beat the estimates in a tiny car if you even think about trying. Our '82 rabbit L would average mid 30s and that's with no overdrive gear.

yes you are taking one of only 2 or 3 examples that have cleared the EAP regs here in the US.

Still where is that 70mpg number on gasers here in the us imperial gallon or not. and like I said you are taking one example that is not representative of the whole, and still not getting to your numbers.

Edit: Why are cars heavy here, Oh yeah Federal DOT MANDATED SAFETY FEATURES, Those are HEAVY too.

[u3b3rg33k]

On gas? No. I never said gas, and I never said 70mpg. I just showed that those numbers are achievable by some means. Show me a link to a gas vehicle that gets 70mpg and is an unmodified production vehicle.


Real numbers from ford UK:
mondeo: 36.7MPG gas, 53.3 MPG Diesel
Ka (aka tiny tiny lightweight 'shitbox') 67 mpg Diesel. Now only 75 hp! (MAX GVW 3200lbs, I think my e30 weighs that empty)

Hell, our rabbit had 83 hp. The honda fit is 117 hp. my motorcycle is 85 hp.

[mrsleeve]

sorry typo meant 60mpg little euro shit boxes.

Yes you can get closer to those numbers with TDi's but still the full on Euro versions cant be sold here thanks to stupidly LOW NOx emissions mandated by the EPA

[10-66kruk]

Personally I had to do a research paper about this my senior year of high school.
The two things that I found, were that the oil supplies that we use and have been using are a renewable source. There is no evidence that says these fossil fuels will run out. They are produced by our earths core and it is a natural process. Most of this hype is gov. based to believe we are on the brink of running out. I also had found that the Gov. regulates so much of the oil costs and future vehicle efficiency so that they can control the prices and control the supply.
I personally feel there are to many slime bags in our government controlling things like alternative fuel research, and alternative sources of energy because they fear loosing their extensive salaries.
Granted I do not have any of my proof on the two points I stated but sadly the U.S. government in my eyes has reached George Orwell's vision of "1984" and has to much control over future break trough's in alternate energy.

[u3b3rg33k]

sorry typo meant 60mpg little euro shit boxes.

Yes you can get closer to those numbers with TDi's but still the full on Euro versions cant be sold here thanks to stupidly LOW NOx emissions mandated by the EPA

I agree. I'm a big fan of honda's lean burn IMA setups. Really cool stuff, using the electric motor to smooth out a 3 cyl engine.

http://www.greencar.com/articles/inside-honda-ima-hybrid-system.php