US deficit down 9%

[z31maniac]

even though it was deemed to become the world's worst industrial disaster ever.

I'd like to read that, source?

[Massive Lee]

Corvallis. Don't take Sleeve's comment for real. My guess is hat he is only trolling. His thinking is that economy has a huge precedent over environment. He prefers to have his pockets full of money, even though he has no more drinkable water. He reviously advocated that BP's oil spill in the Gulf is not to be worried about because nature will take care of it. That the ecological disaster from Alberta's tar sands is not a problem as it creates jobs - even though it was deemed to become the world's worst industrial disaster ever.

Therefore, when he mentions that fracking is allright, I am afraid his commentary cannot be taken seriously. So don't sweat it bringing arguments.

[CorvallisBMW]

So you're telling me that the thousands of cases of poisoned wells, across dozens of states, that started only AFTER the fracking began right next to their wells, are all just a naturally occurring coincidence? Ya, that makes perfect sense.

There is a very clear and undeniable link between fracking and ground water poisoning. Do you really expect to blast millions of gallons of carcinogenic chemicals in to the ground and not have it mix with the water table?? C'mon buddy, use some common sense. It's not rocket science. I know you work for the industry and think you're perfect and can do no wrong, but the facts don't lie.

[mrsleeve]

Darrin Again Fracking was A BANED practice (unless there it was the middle of no where and N one lived anywhere even close to a frack site) in 1972 BY THE CLEAN WATER ACT. The provision was not resubmitted into the Current revision of said law in 2005. I think you are getting the Clean water act confused with the more recent clean DRINKING water act. EPA study in 2004 says its safe

Hence the latest ramp up in shale plays all over the country that were previously untouchable

Again you have shown me dimick PA where they have had methane problems with the ground water there for a long time. Most residents there signed leases for 25-100 bucks an acre, while many held out in the outlaying areas and got 2500 or more an acre. So now they are trying to sue Cabbot and get more outta them.

Cabbot has offered to install and maintain treatment systems to pull the methane outta their wells,but they turned that down.

Edit: I like how your sources constantly cite areas that have lots of naturally occurring issues with the ground water to begin with, then attempt to draw all conclusions for the viewer/reader that its the fault of the process, while leaving out lots of key facts. Also your sources point to one Known issue with a bad cement job on the caseing in PA. That still may or may not have anything to do with the bad wells. That a crisis does not make.

I am also looking for where I read the EPA deeming the process safe.

[CorvallisBMW]

Any way, the town in PA you are referencing has Methane migrating around in the ground water NOT NATURAL GAS.

When they run frac well down its 3-5k feet and concreted down well into the impermeable rock layer to seal the well casing to that layer. When the fracturing occurs it dose not have a effective fracture zone of 6-10k Vertical feet. you are talking about a few hundred vertical feet maybe a 1000 at most depending on the geologic conditions. Thats Still 1000's of feet below the effective water table and several 1000 feet of impermeable rock (you know...... the stuff keeping the gas in the ground) .

Oh you can have flammable well water and not have a Oil or gas well fracked or other wise with in a 1000 miles of you well. Ever hear of H2S (hydrogen sulfide) its what makes your well water smell like sulfur (rotten eggs) and the shit is Highly flammable .

Look can accidents happen, yeah there is always that possibility. Yes there have been some issues that have come from it, but many of them have come form the 40's-60's. It was ban in 1972, but has since sunseted and even the EPA has deemed the process SAFE. The process has come a long way in the last 60 years and has way better tech behind it and we have much more control of it than we had when they were pioneering the process.

Alright I'm calling bullshit on you and everything you wrote here.

The EPA has never deemed the process safe because hydraulic fracturing is exempt from the clean water act, the clean air act, and the safe drinking water act. When the energy act was passed by Bush/Cheney in 2005 it specifically exempted fracking from all environmental regs. Nice little gift from Cheney back to his buddies at Halliburton.

I just finished watching this:

http://gaslandthemovie.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1AeH0Qz8

It's the most up-to-date and truthful documentary about fracking so far. It shows how thousands of people have been poisoned across the country by all kinds of chemicals including toluene, benzene and 592 other known hazardous chemicals that are used in the fracking process. People are being poisoned and KILLED by the shit going on around their homes.

I know you're not an idiot. You're not going to tell me that 2+2=5. So how can you deny the unequivocal and proven side effects of natural gas fracking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01EK76Sy4A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwogQWLEqW8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdgdhFtjXA

It happening all over the country. Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Pennsylvania, New York, West Virginia, etc. Would you let them do that to YOUR well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdgdhFtjXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6G6Ap-mF0k&feature=related

Ya, that looks totally safe and normal to me.

[mrsleeve]

Not sure where they're getting those numbers, but they're 100% wrong: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fy2010...ent_education/

the graph was sited form a .gov web site so someones numbers are fucked up.

Yes, as a matter of fact I've taken a half-dozen trips since the beginning of the summer. Is the TSA fun? No. Is it absolutely necessary? Yes.

Are you saying we should get rid of airport security? How else do you propose we prevent terrorist hijackings? Flowers? Kind words? Maybe a nice sign that says, 'Please don't hijack'?

Never said we dont need some security, but some common sense, professionalism, and customer service would go a long way to improving a shitty situation to a tolerable situation, Dont you agree????

You sure have a fucked up definition of weapon. The EPAs job is environmental protection, which includes environmental policy. The IRS is there to collect taxes. If you don't pay your taxes they will come after you because you broke the law. I can't see how you classify enforcing the law as a weapon...

S&K tools is gonna be gone here soon. EPA basically shut down the plant where they did all the Chrome plating for the last 100 years (of course its gonna be fucked up). The strike, and piss poor management didn't help but the EPA has been the final nail in the coffin.

The oil and gas industry has a hell of a time getting anything done have not built a new refinery in over 30 years. Threatens shut down over 1/3 of domestic fuel production cuz the 0 admin dose not like how TX issues permits. The Power generation industry has not been allowed to build a new new nuke plant in 30 years, and now is having trouble getting FERC permits to build Clean coal and NG fired plants, Or the EPA regulating ultra efficient engines and Diesels from US shores

how is that not the EPA being used as a weapon against the "industries" that are not PC/Green to punish them into submission and extract even more dollars from our pockets.

Taxes, well if you speak open against the govt for a living well you get audited every year. Same if you have a industry that the govt dose not like.

Not sure what show or 'douche bag actor' you're talking about, I don't watch MSNBC. Nice homophobic little insult there though.

I'm talking about the widely known and extremely dangerous consequences of fracking, including natural gas explosions, poisoning of ground water and wells, etc. I've posted lots of videos for you before about flammable tap water and such, but you always ignore them because you don't want to admit I'm right.

Ehhh just assumed, as the dip shit was on Maddow the other night and ran across it channel surfing.

Any way, the town in PA you are referencing has Methane migrating around in the ground water NOT NATURAL GAS.

When they run frac well down its 3-5k feet and concreted down well into the impermeable rock layer to seal the well casing to that layer. When the fracturing occurs it dose not have a effective fracture zone of 6-10k Vertical feet. you are talking about a few hundred vertical feet maybe a 1000 at most depending on the geologic conditions. Thats Still 1000's of feet below the effective water table and several 1000 feet of impermeable rock (you know...... the stuff keeping the gas in the ground) .

Oh you can have flammable well water and not have a Oil or gas well fracked or other wise with in a 1000 miles of you well. Ever hear of H2S (hydrogen sulfide) its what makes your well water smell like sulfur (rotten eggs) and the shit is Highly flammable .

Look can accidents happen, yeah there is always that possibility. Yes there have been some issues that have come from it, but many of them have come form the 40's-60's. It was ban in 1972, but has since sunseted and even the EPA has deemed the process SAFE. The process has come a long way in the last 60 years and has way better tech behind it and we have much more control of it than we had when they were pioneering the process.

[CorvallisBMW]

Sounds good. Give me a buzz when you're off.

[Joey Link]

I could use a pint of Black Bear Stout and some political conversation tonight, if you're up for it.

[CorvallisBMW]

I'd rather do it over a couple of beers ;)

Deal. Sorry I can't make it over for UFC Sat night though.

[Joey Link]

Oh c'mon joey, I know you can't wait to jump in and prove me wrong ;)

I'd rather do it over a couple of beers ;)

[mrsleeve]

darrin I dont have time too poke holes in you theory tonight. have to cram 3 very thick manuals and 5 sections of code of federal regulation into my head for a couple of cert tests tomarrow

[CorvallisBMW]

Oh c'mon joey, I know you can't wait to jump in and prove me wrong ;)

[Joey Link]

Hmmmm

[CorvallisBMW]

Please consult the graph
http://www.federalbudget.com/

Not sure where they're getting those numbers, but they're 100% wrong: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fy2010...ent_education/

The TSA really, Have you been to an airport recently?????

Yes, as a matter of fact I've taken a half-dozen trips since the beginning of the summer. Is the TSA fun? No. Is it absolutely necessary? Yes.

Are you saying we should get rid of airport security? How else do you propose we prevent terrorist hijackings? Flowers? Kind words? Maybe a nice sign that says, 'Please don't hijack'?

EPA is a weapon nothing more nothing less, Its out lived its usefullness and either needs to go away, or be defunded to the point where it can only do what it was intended to do, over see and enforce things NOT WRITE NEW POLICY. IRS again a weapon, and has been since the beginning.

You sure have a fucked up definition of weapon. The EPAs job is environmental protection, which includes environmental policy. The IRS is there to collect taxes. If you don't pay your taxes they will come after you because you broke the law. I can't see how you classify enforcing the law as a weapon...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAAHAHHAAHAHAH

Again talking out your ass about something you obviously have NO CLUE about. You were watching that Douche bag actor on the Dykes show on MSNBC last week weren't you???? Even the EPA has deemed the process safe.

Not sure what show or 'douche bag actor' you're talking about, I don't watch MSNBC. Nice homophobic little insult there though.

I'm talking about the widely known and extremely dangerous consequences of fracking, including natural gas explosions, poisoning of ground water and wells, etc. I've posted lots of videos for you before about flammable tap water and such, but you always ignore them because you don't want to admit I'm right.

I know, possibly an argument for term limits?

I've always wondered if that would be a reasonable solution. I really haven't thought through the whole thing enough to make an educated decision. I'm sure there are good arguments on both sides. Experience is important, but it also breeds corruption. Do we want a bunch of newbies running the country? No. But do we want a bunch of entrenched career politicians who are more concerned about bringing home the bacon and getting re-elected? Certainly not.

[z31maniac]

That's tough though, are you going to cut 15% from Medicaid and expect to get re-elected? Hell no. Seniors will boot you out of office so fast your head will spin. The union thing can suck, yes, but you work for a private company which has obviously allowed unions within their business. It's not the DoDs responsibility, they just give you the contract(s) after bidding, correct?

In the end it all comes down to, 'will this help or hurt my chances of re-election?' That's what drives a huge part of current lawmaking. Not what's best for the country or the people, but what will look best on the next TV clip.

I know, possibly an argument for term limits?

We aren't a Union shop, some defense contractors are, some aren't. But there is always multiple companies working on one project.

A small example of "It ain't my job, I ain't doing it" union-type mentality.

I finished a manual back at the beginning of the year, unfortunately, I missed some paragraph numbering errors (which wouldn't happen period if the other Tech Writer was open to getting real publishing software vs using Word for what are sometimes 2500+ page documents, anyway..)

It was a super easy fix, took approxmiately 30 minutes. And the other companies writers could have fixed this because they were ultimately going to be the ones coverting the Word document to the SGML file for the Navy. So to get things moving they just fix the numbering, right? Nope, they send the manual back through our sister company who has to review it, who then sends it me so I can fix it, then goes back through our sister company, then back to the company.

Not to mention it was originally sent to me on a Monday and I don't work Mondays. So they added nearly 36 hours to when the errors were corrected and added nearly 6 hours of additional billed labor to the gov't.

Bad thing for me? Unfortunately most Tech Writing work in OK is in the Defense sector. ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!