I'm shocked MSNBC is even reporting this....

[z31maniac]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39759042/ns/business/

"Because of the way the law was written, the Section 1603 grant program has no language requiring that recipients reinvest their grant money in the United States. Rogers said he was basing his claim on the fact that many companies have reported to the administration that they reinvested their grants in future wind projects in the U.S."


So claim jobs/towers were built by stimulus money, that actually wasn't, then give the companies more money that they aren't required to invest in more wind farms.

Way to go Congress.

"When the wind association and the Obama administration cite such figures as 50,000 jobs, however, they don't mention that the study found that most were short-term jobs."

There were ~3900 full time jobs created, but not by the stimulus.............you know, since the projects were already finished.


"The Investigative Reporting Workshop previously reported that the majority of the money was going to foreign-owned developers, and that the majority of turbines being installed were built by foreign-owned manufacturers. ( Read those stories here.) The Treasury Department has rejected Freedom of Information requests by the Investigative Reporting Workshop seeking grant applications, citing trade secrets."

:???:

[Farbin Kaiber]

I've had a windfarm sprout up out here on my foothills, I hate it. It's a waste to the locales the place them in.

[Wiglaf]

why do you hate it? will take less than 20 years to pay for itself then it's practically free energy after that.
or do you just go into a blind rage about global warming whenever you see them? lol

[StereoInstaller1]

I've had a windfarm sprout up out here on my foothills, I hate it. It's a waste to the locales the place them in.

2nd on why do you hate it, but none of the hate about you hating it, just curious why you hate it.

Not like I live near a windfarm, but it seems like it would be really cool, no?

[KenC]

They're really loud and kind of an eyesore... which decreases property values.

We should just fill the Dakotas and eastern Montana with them :).

[StereoInstaller1]

They're really loud and kind of an eyesore... which decreases property values.

We should just fill the Dakotas and eastern Montana with them :).

call it the "wind belt", all the way down to west Texas.

[Raxe]

All construction jobs are short term, otherwise they wouldn't be very good at their job.

[Wiglaf]

The ones getting put up near lake Erie seem like they are cranking 100% every day, i'd love to see some actual output vs. price statistics.

edit:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdevelopment.cuyahogacounty.us%2Fpdf_development%2Fen-US%2FExeSum_WindResrc_CleveWtrCribMntr_Reprt.pdf&rct=j&q=great%20lakes%20science%20center%20wind%20output&ei=i2_ETJegKYWksQO0xtSVDA&usg=AFQjCNEn3KXwGGM9JQiraZ_rMo1pqFnxOg&sig2=VhzNt6JfaRB4lMnrNS1Tpg

hopefully that works.. a PDF with some statistics from a test wind power setup they slapped on an offshore water pump. Some months generated 4 times as much power as others, with a year-long average of greater than 30% utilization. Very low shear and average speed above 8mph.. very good place for this. Those things will have a short return of investment. :)

I would assume the mountain area is more turbulent but hopefully also sees a high average speed.

[mrsleeve]

They're really loud and kind of an eyesore... which decreases property values.

We should just fill the Dakotas and eastern Montana with them :).

yes they are. there are 200 or so of them about 5 miles from the inlaws place in IA when the wind is right (which is often) its all you can here even over the tv in the house.

And the Dakotas and Most of MT is worth WAY more for the OIL thats under them and not wind mills.

why do you hate it? will take less than 20 years to pay for itself then it's practically free energy after that. or do you just go into a blind rage about global warming whenever you see them? lol

They are very very expensive to put up. they cost about 1.7million per Meg of power. The ones they were putting up near me on a job I was on in PA were 1.6mw that = 2.75 million a pop. they put up 66 of them or 180m for the farm and only makes 105 mw for the entire farm when its windy. A conventional coal or NG fired plant costs about 600k bucks per mw. so for 180m bucks they could have built a 300mw plant and powered much more, 3 times more homes and business ALL THE TIME for the same price to be more to the point. Wind power is 3 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE than conventional fired generation facilities, WE HAVE VAST coal and NG resources in this country, the largest in the world for that matter.

Thats why wind is not cost effective, it takes WAY too much tax payer money to put up and then the returns ore NOTHING if they didnt have the subsidize. Oh even though it windy a lot of the time some places, the wind does not Blow 100% of the time, and yo have no way to effectively store the excess production for latter. No wind = no power thats just how its. Oh this dose not bring in the estimated 6m dollar over hauls ever 6-10 years PER TURBINE or the vast real estate resource used and a host of other shit I have brought to your attention several times now. They will not pay for them selves with out the govt subsides and or a huge increase in conventional fired energy to make them competitive. Al-La CAP and TRADE style legislation.

Like I have said to you many times, if they were a viable means of energy production on the grand scale then utilities would have been doing this all along.

[Farbin Kaiber]

2nd on why do you hate it, but none of the hate about you hating it, just curious why you hate it.

Not like I live near a windfarm, but it seems like it would be really cool, no?

why do you hate it? will take less than 20 years to pay for itself then it's practically free energy after that.
or do you just go into a blind rage about global warming whenever you see them? lol

Reasons?

1.) http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/1...nes-worry.html

2.) I was born and raised here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gor...Pass_Wind_Farm

3.) None of the projects I've been around supply any power, nor do they pay taxes on property or electricity created, so there is no net income of any sort to the locale that is defaced with these eyesores.

4.) Noise.

I could go on and on. I am presently fighting a large increase of these things in my local area.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^66

Glad I have seen snow 18-24 inches on the fence posts where I live. Ought to keep them things out.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Interesting factoid, the SGPWF sounds like the old talking trees from LOTR when lost in the field while on LSD at night. Funny thing is, it was experienced it 6+ years before the movies came out.

[StereoInstaller1]

I knew they were loud, but had no clue they were that bad.

By chance got info like frequency spectrum and SPL? I imagine there must be LOTS of low frequency and very low frequency energy, with lots of it directly radiated into the ground.

Remember we hoomanz can't really effectively measure anything below 1Hz, any noise that has that low a frequency, that long a wavelength is really not even studied.

[mrsleeve]

yeah luke its a very low drone you hear at a distance, up close its that plus the actual WOOSH WOOSH as the blades pass close to the ground

[E30Kaiser]

The one here built as a test isn't that loud or obstructing, but then again this is in the mountains so i am sure the sound is blocked as is the sight by trees and terrain usually. I like the way they look during the day though, just me I guess.