$5 Gas in 2012?

[joshh]

The remaining oil companies control their own market. We haven't built an oil refinery since 1972 (or was it 74?). This alone artificially increases the price of fuel. Supply and demand.
And I'm sure the oil companies have made large donations 9back handedly) to tree hugging organizations just for the purpose of fighting against the oil companies (themselves)...so they can artificially control the price of their own product. Or if you will...the price artificially increases.
It's what many now call "good" business. And what I call bullshit.
Thanks to both liberal retards and the oil companies.

Nuke=bring it!

[Vedubin01]

However, I'd like to see the energy loss it takes to produce the ethanol.

Me too, goes hand in hand on how much energy it takes to produce Electric and Hybrid vehicles.

[Vedubin01]

IYou're definitely in the minority there then. If you research 'peak oil', you'll find 99% of the findings and studies done point to it having already happened or happening in the very near future.

All that shows is peak consumption. Supply keeping up with Demand. Demand falling, less production needed.

[z31maniac]

Maybe a poor Article to use, today a lot of Brazil is using E100. Im sure if you ask Erick (our resident drifter) he is from Brazil. He would enlighten you on this. WE have had this discussion before. I think he is in Brazil currently.

Its been a 30 year gamble that seems to be working for Brazil. Coupled with the fact that Brazil is an oil producing country. Not dependent on the world market for its oil consumption.

Approx 40% of vehicles in Brazil use E100 while the rest of the country uses varying grades from E10 to E85.

However, I'd like to see the energy loss it takes to produce the ethanol.

[z31maniac]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with peak oil theory, there are just too many variables to try to account for. Hell the Saudi's have been pumping MILLIONS of barrels a day for decades, and yet their "proven reserves" haven't changed?

But, the Peak Oil advocates have continued to say that the "peak" is just around the corner for approaching 40 years now.

[Vedubin01]

If you actually read that article, you'll see that their gasoline is E25, meaning 25% ethanol and 75% petroleum...

Maybe a poor Article to use, today a lot of Brazil is using E100. Im sure if you ask Erick (our resident drifter) he is from Brazil. He would enlighten you on this. WE have had this discussion before. I think he is in Brazil currently.

Its been a 30 year gamble that seems to be working for Brazil. Coupled with the fact that Brazil is an oil producing country. Not dependent on the world market for its oil consumption.

[lga714]

Awesome! Less bro trucks on the road. I get paid to drive and I write it off for taxes, I love being an IC.

[CorvallisBMW]

Brazil's fuel is 100% made from Sugar Cane does not depend on the rest of the world for its Fuel source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

If you actually read that article, you'll see that their gasoline is E25, meaning 25% ethanol and 75% petroleum...

I agree with ya on most. We do need to produce more Nuclear Power and open up restriction to new refineries. Nuclear power will remove some of the dependence of Oil. And new refineries will help with the bottle necking of converting crude to fuel.

Peak Oil is what you speak of. Sure we need to start planning for the future with out mass amounts of Oil but, Peak oil will not happen in our lifetime or even our kids lifetime.

Id bet WWIII will happen before Peak Oil happens.

You're definitely in the minority there then. If you research 'peak oil', you'll find 99% of the findings and studies done point to it having already happened or happening in the very near future. In fact:

[Vedubin01]

ok i got to say some of that makes a lot of sens. i am not one to go deregulating shit though. but that is another discussion in its self.
the thing is that that is also a short term fix. we only have so much oil on this planet. ones it does run out ,which it will, what do we do?
at some point oil will get way to expensive for regular people to afford, and i think we are slowly seeing it happen right now.

I agree with ya on most. We do need to produce more Nuclear Power and open up restriction to new refineries. Nuclear power will remove some of the dependence of Oil. And new refineries will help with the bottle necking of converting crude to fuel.

Peak Oil is what you speak of. Sure we need to start planning for the future with out mass amounts of Oil but, Peak oil will not happen in our lifetime or even our kids lifetime.

Id bet WWIII will happen before Peak Oil happens.

[deutschman]

ok i got to say some of that makes a lot of sens. i am not one to go deregulating shit though. but that is another discussion in its self.
the thing is that that is also a short term fix. we only have so much oil on this planet. ones it does run out ,which it will, what do we do?
at some point oil will get way to expensive for regular people to afford, and i think we are slowly seeing it happen right now.

[Vedubin01]

well i personally don't think it has that much to do with obama and his administration. maybe a bit.


i just think that we as a country are headed into some really bad times where everyone is going to have to get used to living with a lot less then they lived with before.

Deutschman, do you think the US dollar is worth the same as it was say 10 years ago?

As a business man, you produce a product that can be sold world wide. Do you devalue your product to keep prices the same in one market or take your product somewhere else to make more?

Our current Admin is betting on lowering the value of the Dollar to repay the loans its borrowed from China. Printing money to pay back the loan is what the US is doing. But doing that forces the Dollar to fall because there is so freaking much of it in circulation.

Timmy and Bernanke are betting on this. Repaying with Cheap money to get us out of this debt. But the reverse side of that is inflation. Only way to combat that is to raise taxes to recoup the massive amounts of US Dollar on the market.

We are seeing the start of this. Inflation in food, and fuel. Thus the trickle down effect passing the cost onto other goods and services.

We can not go on forever with our current interest rates. Ask your parents if they lived in the US back in the early to mid 80's. Ask them what their interest rates were on Credit Cards and Home Mortgages. Around 18% on homes and not uncommon to see credit cards rates in the 20% plus range.


Its only the start of more bad things to come. Things are really going to get tight.

[Vedubin01]

Z31,

I dont know how long you have lived in Tulsa Ok, but Tulsa was once the Oil Capital of the world. As a kid I grew up in OKC and had a house on Grand Lake in Tulsa. My family was in the oil business, owning a company called Poole Oil Services, and Trailblazer truck and crane. Poole was a well service and Trailblazer was the trucking company that moved the massive amounts of pipe used in oil drilling.

In 1986 the local economy collapsed. The housing market in OK and TX plummeted and still today has not reeled back from the "good ole days" because of the oil collapse.

In 1986 OPEC was forced to lower its price on the world oil market because other non OPEC countries were producing oil cheaper then them. OK and TX did not run out of oil, just the cost to produce was more than purchasing it overseas. Coupled with new Gov. regulations it forced local Oil companies to cap the wells and move on.

The United States is far from running out of oil. Its about cost and using up other resources before re tapping into the US oil supply.

The only way to lower gas prices in the US currently is to regain value of the Dollar and open up the tight regulation Gov. has put on the Oil Industry.

[z31maniac]

Sorry, I meant out West in general. Donno why I was thinking AZ.

Even the article you quoted, which is 3.5 years old btw, says it "could" be profitable "if" the technology "proves itself."

That's a lot of hoping.

[nando]

yes, it's definitely the evil oil companies. lol :p

[deutschman]

well i personally don't think it has that much to do with obama and his administration. maybe a bit.
i think most of the high oil prices are do to the manipulation by the oil companies. all they need to do to get the oil prices to rise is cut back on production and BLAM the prices sky rocket because suddenly there is not that much oil and everyone still wants it.
at that point it does not matter what your administration is doing to your currency. the $ could still be worth what it was but the oil price would still go up because of demand.
maybe i will be selling my lovely '02 and getting a motor bike.
who knows. i just think that we as a country are headed into some really bad times where everyone is going to have to get used to living with a lot less then they lived with before.