Income inequality in the US. [infographic]

[kronus]

Thoughts?

[z31maniac]

It sucks. It's too bad that since the 70s CEO pay has grown exponentially.

Part of the reason all of our manufacturing went overseas was because as worker pay started to stagnate in the 80s, people could no longer afford to buy the goods they were producing.

[DaveSmed]

Shoot, there's the problem.

I'm going to mail that top %1 this weeks paycheck. And I call on all of you to do the same. They clearly need our help!


That'll create some jobs.

[gwb72tii]

you know every time this comes up i laugh
if it weren't for the rich there might not have been any income gain at all, and they pay their fair share of the tax burden (more than their fair share imho).
they're not robbing you are they? how do yo think they make as much as they do? clip coupons and gather dividends? they do stuff, take risk, and get rewarded.
the rich today pay the highest % of all federal income taxes collected in history, even as tax brackets were reduced modestly. yet somehow this is unfair.
we can exchange statistics all day long and never reach a conclusion.

the solution to getting the poor to earn more is to create jobs and let them keep more of what they earn.

high tax rates inhibit both.

and isn't it interesting that corporate taxes as a % have gone down as their tax rates have remained high? its called tax avoidance. form a corp and pay dividends instead of W2 wages. presto, 15% tax bracket.

and another interesting add to your tax rate thru history graph, showing marginal rates being low and high thru history.
during all that time period, no matter the marginal rate, the federal govt took about 20% of economic output as fed income tax, NO MATTER THE RATE! high, low, the same % collected.

and during all that time of low, high, and low federal tax rates, with one minor exception, the federal govt always always always spent more than they brought in.

[ck_taft325is]

I agree and disagree.

$100,000 paid in taxes IS an extraordinarily high number.

But, do they feel it nearly as much as say someone that pays $200.00 but can just barely put food on the table? Probably not. Does this mean the tax burden is equal? No. Not in either direction.

Life's not fair but there's no reason for anyone that's poor to hate the rich as there is any real reason for the rich to feel as though they "carry" all of the poor. Greed is a terrible thing, no?

Government spending has got to come down to equalize this equation a bit. It'll be the same shit everyone's struggled with since the beginning of time. Rich are getting rich and the poor are getting poorer.

[mrsleeve]

you know every time this comes up i laugh
if it weren't for the rich there might not have been any income gain at all, and they pay their fair share of the tax burden (more than their fair share imho).
they're not robbing you are they? how do yo think they make as much as they do? clip coupons and gather dividends? they do stuff, take risk, and get rewarded.
the rich today pay the highest % of all federal income taxes collected in history, even as tax brackets were reduced modestly. yet somehow this is unfair.
we can exchange statistics all day long and never reach a conclusion.

the solution to getting the poor to earn more is to create jobs and let them keep more of what they earn.

high tax rates inhibit both.

and isn't it interesting that corporate taxes as a % have gone down as their tax rates have remained high? its called tax avoidance. form a corp and pay dividends instead of W2 wages. presto, 15% tax bracket.

Yup

1 thing to add to the solution for the poor. Tighten the distribution of and lessen entitlements to them. Make then uneasy in their poverty, its a built in incentive to get out and make something of your self

[Ryan Stewart]

So if 90% of the countrys household income is less than half of my compensation package does that make me one of the rich? Because I sure as fuck am not a millionaire.

[Raxe]

Yup

1 thing to add to the solution for the poor. Tighten the distribution of and lessen entitlements to them. Make then uneasy in their poverty, its a built in incentive to get out and make something of your self

That's a nice theory, but it's a fact that not everyone can be successful or wealthy. It just can't happen. The success comes from other people; one persons gain is another persons loss. Most people will be stuck in poverty while few people will benefit from it.

The only thing you're going to do by making it even harder on the poor is increasing desperation, and in turn increasing crime and all sorts of nasty stuff. If you want to maintain a position of power you need to keep the people getting you there satisfied.

[mrsleeve]

That's a nice theory, but it's a fact that not everyone can be successful or wealthy. It just can't happen. The success comes from other people; one persons gain is another persons loss. Most people will be stuck in poverty while few people will benefit from it.

NO hard work and little luck and you may not be a millionaire, but you can have a comfortable life. true not everyone can make it to the big time, but you never will if you never try either.

The only thing you're going to do by making it even harder on the poor is increasing desperation, and in turn increasing crime and all sorts of nasty stuff. If you want to maintain a position of power you need to keep the people getting you there satisfied.

No, Sink or swim mother fucker thats how it needs to be. The issue becomes you run out of other peoples money to redistribute. IE the problems we are getting into now.

[shiftbmw]

That's a nice theory, but it's a fact that not everyone can be successful or wealthy.

You're right. Being wealthy takes hard work, dedication, motivation, a willingness to take calculated risks which not everybody is capable of.

Some people are lazy, unmotivated, have poor financial habits, and some people have made bad financial decisions in the past that are very difficult to recover from.

Being wealthy is nothing but a game of consequences. Striving for it, coupled with some smarts, is likely to get you somewhere. Be lazy and you unsurprisingly won't amount to much.

VERY VERY FEW people don't have access to the tools required or are physically incapable of becoming rich. I'm talking disabled, etc. We're all born and we're all people...the starting point doesn't get much more equal.

[z31maniac]

If lower tax rates for the rich are the solution to everything, please explain why REAL WAGES over the last 30 years have either stayed constant or even gone down.

I make a decent wage at a good job, with pretty good benefits. Due to health care increases and such, I took home less last year than I did the year before, and I'm going to take home even less this year.

And that's before you add in the increase in every basic necessity.

[mrsleeve]

If lower tax rates for the rich are the solution to everything, please explain why REAL WAGES over the last 30 years have either stayed constant or even gone down.

.

Govt meddling in the markets, in attempts to "steer" them in a way that furthers a particular agenda. SSI, medi care/caid Fannie, Freddie, Green energy, etc..... all ways to try to make things fair for every one.


the more medeling and "regulation" the govt gets into of anything and everything, the more ways they find way to sponge off the top and all that gets passed on to us the middle class to pay for.

[joshh]

Outsourcing sure hasn't helped. And this goes hand in hand with lobbying and both parties catering to the rich.
The rich have become a lot like the lowest 40% who leach off the system...they have gotten used to being fed by politicians.
I have no problem with someone being absurdly rich, as long as they made the money honestly. Honesty in that regard has become more and more gray. And so has greed.

[ck_taft325is]

You're right. Being wealthy takes hard work, dedication, motivation, a willingness to take calculated risks which not everybody is capable of.

Some people are lazy, unmotivated, have poor financial habits, and some people have made bad financial decisions in the past that are very difficult to recover from.

Being wealthy is nothing but a game of consequences. Striving for it, coupled with some smarts, is likely to get you somewhere. Be lazy and you unsurprisingly won't amount to much.

VERY VERY FEW people don't have access to the tools required or are physically incapable of becoming rich. I'm talking disabled, etc. We're all born and we're all people...the starting point doesn't get much more equal.

I appreciate the idealism of this sentiment and while it would be great if it where true, it's just not.

Wealth has an incredible amount to do with timing, luck and yes, calculated risk. We're not all created equal and that's the hard fact. Some of us are laborers. Some of us are leaders. Some of us are cut throat, do anything for a profit, CEO's. All good and dandy but that doesn't mean you should piss on the backs of those supporting your business with poor practices based just on "profits".

I work at a big box company. Their profits are up this year. They just cut 5 positions of management and told each person, at every store across the nation (and Mexico) that they can take a 20% pay decrease or get the fuck out.

What the fuck, right? Maybe I'm getting a bit more liberal but that doesn't seem right to me. "Go get a better job" - sure, sure. Shut the hell up. You don't realize what it's like to get your teeth kicked in over and over in a down turn economy where $15 an hour jobs (which still isn't enough to pay your electricity and feed your kids) are packed with over 700 applicants. That's the harsh reality of the "majority" of people. "Should have stayed in school!" - sure, sure. Shut the hell up. This idea that everyone will be a movie star, or a CEO or has all the same doors open is a straw man argument based in nothing more than high and mighty ideals with no grounding in reality. It shouldn't be the poor get shafted just because they are poor. Poor doesn't mean you fucked off everyday of your life. Some of the poorest people I know work harder than 90% of us here.

[Raxe]

I appreciate the idealism of this sentiment and while it would be great if it where true, it's just not.

Wealth has an incredible amount to do with timing, luck and yes, calculated risk. We're not all created equal and that's the hard fact. Some of us are laborers. Some of us are leaders. Some of us are cut throat, do anything for a profit, CEO's. All good and dandy but that doesn't mean you should piss on the backs of those supporting your business with poor practices based just on "profits".

I work at a big box company. Their profits are up this year. They just cut 5 positions of management and told each person, at every store across the nation (and Mexico) that they can take a 20% pay decrease or get the fuck out.

What the fuck, right? Maybe I'm getting a bit more liberal but that doesn't seem right to me. "Go get a better job" - sure, sure. Shut the hell up. You don't realize what it's like to get your teeth kicked in over and over in a down turn economy where $15 an hour jobs (which still isn't enough to pay your electricity and feed your kids) are packed with over 700 applicants. That's the harsh reality of the "majority" of people. "Should have stayed in school!" - sure, sure. Shut the hell up. This idea that everyone will be a movie star, or a CEO or has all the same doors open is a straw man argument based in nothing more than high and mighty ideals with no grounding in reality. It shouldn't be the poor get shafted just because they are poor. Poor doesn't mean you fucked off everyday of your life. Some of the poorest people I know work harder than 90% of us here.

I agree with this.

Saying that everyone has an equal and fair chance in life to be rich and successful is just not true. taft pretty much summed up my thoughts on different personalities (if everyone was born the same wouldn't we all live the same life? a discussion for a different thread) and we sure as heck don't have the same opportunities in life. What the "successful" people often don't understand is that the poor aren't always poor because they're lazy. It takes money to make money, and extreme wealth takes a great deal of luck and being in the right place at the right time.

I'm willing to bet nearly everyone here will agree they work/worked hard for their money and have made a solid effort at having a good life, yet I'm fairly certain none of us are "very rich." Why is that?