Sales of the GM Volt.

[tjts1]

butthurt butthurt butthurt, blah blah blah butthurt... lol.

Can somebody translate this to English?

[rwh11385]

Enjoyment and "would buy againsts" don't justify poor sales numbers.
Of course you do realize it's the most expensive car in the "fuel efficient cars" category. So of course it's going to to liked more because it's a better car. And the few who bought it can afford to have purchased it...being that it's more expensive than the other cars in it's category. But that doesn't change the fact it's over priced in it's market and will continue to have bad sales numbers despite your poor justifications trying to liken it to BMW type brands in sales numbers (even though you know the luxury brands make more profit per car, thus their lower sales numbers)...lol.

Joshh is unencumbered by facts and proud of it. Stop trying to bring him down to reality.

And yet, you've never been able to define what poor vs. good numbers mean. What numbers would be "good enough" to you? You hated on 300/month which is reasonable but now, you still don't think nearly 3000 is? What about 4000? When will you stop Moving the Goalposts?

I don't realize it is the most expensive eco car, mostly because it is not. You do not like to use facts because they disagree with your poor logic. The Volt is less than half the cost of the most expensive plug-in (Karma). And cheaper than the Model S as well. And the Fusion plug-in will cost more as well.

And your poor assumption is that more expensive always means better car. The rise of Honda with good cars with better value than the domestics show otherwise.

And Ford priced their plug-ins on either end of the Volt, which places it in the middle. Maybe you should find a new argument since yours is invalid.

It's your ignorant opinion that it is overpriced and stupid for you to claim it as a "fact". You have no idea the difference between facts and opinions, nor the methodology of backing up an argument with reality - just repeating poor logic. They'll continue to bring down the price, especially when they have an upmarket ELR for 2014, but that doesn't mean it is overpriced for what you get - right now the best capable plug-in series hybrid.

[joshh]

And yet, you've never been able to define what poor vs. good numbers mean. What numbers would be "good enough" to you? You hated on 300/month which is reasonable but now, you still don't think nearly 3000 is? What about 4000? When will you stop Moving the Goalposts?

I don't realize it is the most expensive eco car, mostly because it is not. You do not like to use facts because they disagree with your poor logic. The Volt is less than half the cost of the most expensive plug-in (Karma). And cheaper than the Model S as well. And the Fusion plug-in will cost more as well.

And your poor assumption is that more expensive always means better car. The rise of Honda with good cars with better value than the domestics show otherwise.

And Ford priced their plug-ins on either end of the Volt, which places it in the middle. Maybe you should find a new argument since yours is invalid.

It's your ignorant opinion that it is overpriced and stupid for you to claim it as a "fact". You have no idea the difference between facts and opinions, nor the methodology of backing up an argument with reality - just repeating poor logic. They'll continue to bring down the price, especially when they have an upmarket ELR for 2014, but that doesn't mean it is overpriced for what you get - right now the best capable plug-in series hybrid.

Wait wait wait...you just spent another post trying to say I'm wrong that the Volt is over priced then say at the end of your post that they will bring the price down. So if it's not over priced why are they trying so hard to bring the price down. You fight against your own argument.
More expensive cars generally are better cars. It's this reason why the luxury car market stays in business. Sorry your argument there is far weaker...lol

[rwh11385]

Wait wait wait...you just spent another post trying to say I'm wrong that the Volt is over priced then say at the end of your post that they will bring the price down. So if it's not over priced why are they trying so hard to bring the price down. You fight against your own argument.
More expensive cars generally are better cars. It's this reason why the luxury car market stays in business. Sorry your argument there is far weaker...lol

Maybe you should learn to read.

What cost is affordable enough for you for a halo car? If you are going to be making judgments you should be capable of providing your limits or target values, instead of simply avoiding the question, repeatedly.


Really? On what basis are you claiming that the GenI Volt is as good as they can get? That they can't make it more affordable? Do you have any facts to back your statement, or just more ignorance?

"The mission was to engineer and get the Volt ready for production as fast as we could," Bereisa says, "which meant employing as many off-the-shelf parts as possible. When you use available components, you're probably carrying a little more cost and mass than you need, since every component had to do something else, probably in a larger vehicle. So I think literally thousands of dollars can come out of that car. And by the time they get to Gen II, it'll be a very cost-effective proposition."

That includes the battery, Bereisa says. "I think we'll see that down to maybe $200 per kilowatt-hour in two to three years, even without major innovations. And I foresee at least twice the energy density in five to seven years." If he's right, that would mean half the weight and maybe half the cost to carry the same amount of onboard energy.

The next Volt will probably have aero drag, rolling resistance and accessory load improvements, too. While overall vehicle efficiency is much less critical to an EREV like the Volt than to a battery-only car like the Nissan Leaf, it significantly affects both electric range and gasoline fuel economy.

The Volt's fuel economy has room to improve, Bereisa says. "When we modeled the Volt's engine, theoretically we could have gotten to the high 40s or even low 50s in mpg in gasoline mode. But we would have had to run the engine continuously at 3500 to 3800 rpm and just switch it on and off." But that didn't work, he says—it was too noisy. "We had to drop the engine rpm down, and that got us to 37 to 38 mpg. But I think a lot of gasoline fuel economy still can be gained without major expenditures in tooling or engineering."

GM could also choose to redo the four-cylinder gas engine for the next Volt. For the international market, the automaker could take that same basic engine to Brazil and run it on pure alcohol while the rest of the vehicle stays the same, or it could swap in a small, direct-injected diesel and run it on biodiesel for Europe. Here in the U.S., one near-term improvement Bereisa says GM should be working on is certifying the Volt for E85 fuel. "Volt drivers are averaging over 1000 miles before refueling; then they're adding back about eight gallons of gasoline. That works out to 125 mpg. But if you really want to reduce petroleum consumption, E85 in the Voltec architecture would do a phenomenal job," he says. GM, though, says there are no current plans to make the Volt engine E85-capable, since that would add some cost and the availability of E85 fuel is still slim in most areas.

The electric side of the Voltec system is due for an upgrade as well, Bereisa says. The Volt has two electric motors onboard: A 149-hp motor powers the car, but when the battery is depleted, the engine spins a 74-hp generator to supply additional electrical energy. To power a larger, heavier car, Bereisa suggests spinning both. "Because you can run the generator as a second motor, and pick the time and conditions under which it becomes a motor, you can cover a lot of vehicle sizes and masses," he says.

So how do I see Volt and Voltec evolving in the next several years? Voltec technology will proliferate to a variety of GM vehicles, including larger cars and crossovers, but those new vehicles are several years down the road.

Now that the Volt is a proven concept, GM will fine-tune it into a great car. Expect a slightly smaller but much lighter, more fuel-efficient and more affordable Volt that runs 35 to 60 miles on battery power, achieves mid-40s mpg on gas and sells in the low- to mid-$30,000 range.

I guess the chief engineer for the Volt has a different opinion than you on the ability to draw out more costs from it... I wonder whose words ought to carry more weight?

As said before, it is not overpriced because value matters and the batteries might be expensive but are also the heart of its capabilities - which is still better than the other plug-in hybrids on the market and in the middle of their costs when the Fusion comes out.

But most companies since the creation of industry have desired to lower the costs of their goods. However, that does not mean that they were overpriced to begin with, per your overly simplistic and ignorant "logic".

People wouldn't accept high prices for luxury cars unless their features and quality provide good value. It's more than simply price that matters, which is what you are missing. Maybe you should get a clue about the industry before trying to make judgments about it.

[joshh]

Maybe you should learn to read.



As said before, it is not overpriced because value matters and the batteries might be expensive but are also the heart of its capabilities - which is still better than the other plug-in hybrids on the market and in the middle of their costs when the Fusion comes out.

But most companies since the creation of industry have desired to lower the costs of their goods. However, that does not mean that they were overpriced to begin with, per your overly simplistic and ignorant "logic".

People wouldn't accept high prices for luxury cars unless their features and quality provide good value. It's more than simply price that matters, which is what you are missing. Maybe you should get a clue about the industry before trying to make judgments about it.

Which means they are better cars...lol. Features, value and quality...you said it yourself. Oh lordy.

[rwh11385]

Which means they are better cars...lol. Features, value and quality...you said it yourself. Oh lordy.

So better cars are not overpriced when they have higher price tags?

And yet you suffer some sort of mental difficulty in understanding that the Volt has features that other cars do not so your biased and simplistic rationale that it must be overpriced is invalid?

[joshh]

So better cars are not overpriced when they have higher price tags?

And yet you suffer some sort of mental difficulty in understanding that the Volt has features that other cars do not so your biased and simplistic rationale that it must be overpriced is invalid?

You're still comparing a fucking Volt to a BMW or Mercedes..LMFAO. Get a fucking clue. It's mostly the technology that makes it expensive. It's not a luxury car. Although a nice car otherwise. Thus overpriced.
GM is doing what they can to lower the price...which blows your argument out of the water. They know it's over priced as well. People want the car, they don't want the price tag. Sales are showing this, get over it.

[rwh11385]

You're still comparing a fucking Volt to a BMW or Mercedes..LMFAO. Get a fucking clue. It's mostly the technology that makes it expensive. It's not a luxury car. Although a nice car otherwise. Thus overpriced.
GM is doing what they can to lower the price...which blows your argument out of the water. They know it's over priced as well. People want the car, they don't want the price tag. Sales are showing this, get over it.

You telling someone to get a clue although you are completely ignorant of the automotive industry is laughable. Compare the Volt to a conventionally powered car and you'll see it has features that have cost but also more capability and that's what people pay for. And the price for the Volt is in line with the competition that is chasing it, although none can match its capability yet.

Once again, trying to lower the price of something doesn't inherently mean it is overpriced, unless you are simple.

The Nissan Leaf is cheaper yet they have sales that are pitiful compared to the Volt. Maybe your argument is much too simple and ignorant?

[DaveNorCal]

After glancing at this interminable thread off on on for months the real issue seems clear. Josh hates the Volt BECAUSE it pushes the envelope toward maket acceptability. If it is a success it tends to validate President Obama's push to restructure GM and provide incentives to purchase low fuel-consumption, low carbon producing vehicles. And that leads to socialism or maybe even communism. LOL.

[tjts1]

After glancing at this interminable thread off on on for months the real issue seems clear. Josh hates the Volt BECAUSE it pushes the envelope toward maket acceptability. If it is a success it tends to validate President Obama's push to restructure GM and provide incentives to purchase low fuel-consumption, low carbon producing vehicles. And that leads to socialism or maybe even communism. LOL.

You're probably right. Joshh thinks the Volt is un american technology that must be stopped at all costs.

[tjts1]

Chevy Volt Owners: We'd Do It Again

The annual Consumer Reports owner satisfaction survey asks car owners a single question: Considering all factors (price, performance, reliability, comfort, enjoyment, etc.), would you get the same vehicle if you had to do it all over again? The organization received about 350,000 responses on more than 240 models, spanning the model years from 2010 to 2013.

The Chevy Volt had the highest score of any vehicle; 92 percent of owners said they would definitely buy it again. Other high-scoring vehicles included the Porsche 911 (91 percent), Chevrolet Corvette (91 percent), Audi A7 (90 percent), and Dodge Challenger (90 percent).

Consumer Reports editors said they were not surprised by the good performance of hybrids, especially the Volt. "You've got relatively few people who buy them, but they are finding out that the technology works," Evarts said. "It can eventually cut them off from having to buy gasoline without placing any restrictions on their lives."

http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1366&doc_id=256509&dfpPParams=ind_184,industry_auto,bid_318,aid_256509&dfpLayout=blog&dfpPParams=ind_184,industry_auto,bid_318,aid_256509&dfpLayout=blog

[herbivor]

I test drove the Volt and liked it. I just couldn't see out of the damn thing. I felt disconnected from the driving experience. It felt unsafe for that reason.
I'll be interested to see how the i3 drives.

[gwb72tii]

i'd argue anyone that plunks down the cash to buy a volt, and there aren't many, would tell anyone how smart they are and they'd do it all over again, even if they really hated the damn thing

and they're fucking up the planet to boot

LOL

[rwh11385]

i'd argue anyone that plunks down the cash to buy a volt, and there aren't many, would tell anyone how smart they are and they'd do it all over again, even if they really hated the damn thing

and they're fucking up the planet to boot

LOL

You'd argue the most asinine reasoning to avoid reality.

For those are looking for an extended-range EV, the Volt provides the greatest range and people who buy them are very into the benefits. (It's like hypermilers love of the Gen1 Insight)

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Apr/0403-volt.html

“I have driven more than 23,500 miles in my Volt in 21 months, and have been to a gas station twice,” said Brent Waldrep of Auburn Hills, Mich. “The last time, was in August (2012), and I still have about 65 percent of that tank left. I go about 9,000-10,000 miles between fill ups.”

Instead of being a car "whose time has not come", the industry has followed in suit and GM has been a first-mover instead of being a decade behind like in the 90s.


If you think electric cars are communist, or another stupid rationale of why you'd be prejudice against hybridization or electrification of automotive drivetrains, then GM also now has this to offer: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...uze-turbo.html




I think it is a few months away from when Hamtramck switches over to include the 2014 ELR.


Other news about future of transportation / dieting away from dino juice:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082955_2016-chevrolet-volt-to-get-three-cylinder-range-extender-report

2016 Chevrolet Volt To Get Three-Cylinder Range Extender

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130415-906736.html

Joule Extends Solar CO(2) -Conversion Platform to Produce Renewable Gasoline and Jet Fuel

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1083563_protean-in-wheel-electric-motor-to-enter-production-in-2014

Protean In-Wheel Electric Motor to Enter Production in 2014

Protean is one of the 10Best Most Promising Technologies for 2013: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...logies-feature
Super Plastics, Tiny Range-Extenders, and More Regenerative Charging could help make cars more efficient.

[BraveUlysses]

Woah, I had no idea GM came out with a Cruize diesel!

If only I could find a good, modern diesel drivetrain to swap into an e30 wagon I could finally dump my forester.